Originally posted by Chris Knipp A strong point you make is the lack of pauses in the conversation -- I take it you're making the reasonable suggestion that they might have become more physical during screen time since they were before, and both are basically lonely. The constant talk is certainly a convention, though not too far from the realities of such situations. At the film's end, it looks very much like they're going to get very physical indeed and the conversation is going to end.
I raise this point not to suggest more physicality, just more being with each other. Silences can be awkward or comfortable but sometimes they say more about the relationship than non-stop talk. I know people who are compulsive talkers and some use this as a device to avoid intimacy. All the talking destroys the chemistry. There are no facial expressions, furtive glances, and so forth. It seemed to me as if they were fearful of a few moments of silence.
I differ from you in the My Dinner with Andre comparison. Though that piece has many ardent admirers, I personally found it terribly boring and self indulgent and I am not alone. It's utterly different since it's two (straight) men talking not about each other's relationship but (mainly Andre Gregory) talking about Seventies intellectual and spiritual explorations, without any romantic stimulus whatsoever, either between them or for us. This subject matter may personally interest you more, but the conversational format does not closely link it with Before Sunset.
I certainly wouldn't make that comparison. I simply pointed out that others had done so. No, I don't see the connection either. In My Dinner With Andre, the conversation was about the personal experiences of one as opposed to the considerations of the other. Both represented differing worldviews. As such, found it a mind- expanding experience. I can understand why someone like yourself who has a mechanistic view of the world would not find it inspiring.
Risking one's health isn't the same as damaging the environment and in Paris everybody smokes, even the eco-activists. I don't think there's any message here. They just both smoke.
Well, isn't that lovely? Everybody in Paris smokes. What a quaint custom! Unfortunately, the film's distribution is not limited to France and is viewed by young people all over the world. I simply asked what message this sends to them, intended by the director or not.
I don't think either that the more lighthearted "sexual banter" and "philosophical posturing" are "sophomoric," but rather that the solemnity of their discussions nine years earlier was the really sophomoric tone. But I completely see the validity of your overall position even if -- largely because I think the movie works so beautifully as a movie within the limitations it sets -- I don't agree with you. But those limitations are undeniable.
Well, it seems to me that people in their thirties would have moved on from that. It was appropriate nine years earlier, but neither exhibited much greater maturity here. Yes I found some of the conversation silly and shallow. I won't say it is on the level of a high school cafeteria chat, more like an all night college dorm bull session.
To step back a bit in the thread, what is your stand on the films of Eric Rohmer? Surely they're a good deal more closely related to Before Sunset and Before Sunrise than My Dinner with Andre, don't you think, since they're all about men and women thinking about their attraction to each other and who they want to be with?
I think the difference between Linklater and Rohmer was stated clearly by Jurgen Fauth of WorldFilm: "The loveliness of Rohmer's films lies in the acute observation, the light humor, and the mature way in which the characters' problems are handled. The people in these films look a little less glamorous than film stars, but they are much more real, and they're a lot smarter and more articulate, too. When you think about it, it's quite remarkable to watch people talk about love for ninety minutes and never have them utter anything trite, tired, or shop-worn".