Kill Bill vol. 2

[Johann]

The release date for the finale of Tarantino's sword saga Kill Bill is April 16- 3 days after Vol. 1 hits DVD shelves.

Universal Studios owns the Japanese rights to Kill Bill, and they have put together a box set that looks awesome. You get:

-the widescreen uncut Japanese version of the film
-a mini "Hattori Hanzo" sword
-an Okinawa t-shirt
-a 24 page booklet
-an action figure of "The Bride".

http://tarantino.webds.de/tarantino/movie/killbill/dvd/killbillcollecjapr2pic1.jpg

[Cowman]

Wow, that looks awesome!

So I take it this box set is going to be released in North America as well as Japan? Also, do you happen to know how the Japanese version of the film differs from the US version (other than the languages, of course)? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Japanese version was edited a bit differently, which changed the story somewhat. But I could be mistaken...

[Johann]

No. The box set will NOT be available in North America.
You'll have to visit Tokyo or order it direct from a japanese distributer. Too bad, because it looks like Miramax is releasing Kill Bill vol. 1 without all the goodies I mentioned...

As for the uncut version, all I know is that scenes will have more violence and gore- no alternate scenes or dialog.

[HorseradishTree]

Too bad Vol. 2 got pushed back from February. It was the middle of the month and I suddenly realized "Hey! Wasn't Kill Bill supposed to come out this month?" Then I did some research and to my dismay, the release date was pushed back. Oh, woe is the casual film buff.

[bix171]

For those interested, in the April 10 online edition (and, I think, the April 11 printed edition), there's a superb compendium of the influences (East and West) found in both volumes of "Kill Bill" by the nation's best film critic, Dave Kehr. His identification of the voluminous references has escalated my admiration of Quentin Tarentino to an entirely new level.

[Johann]

About fucking time Vol. 2 is out. The new trailers are very cool.

Gonna be a sweet week next week: The Punisher, Kill Bill, I'm picking up Bergman's Autumn Sonata on Criterion, yep, life is good.


The best trailer?

www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/kill_bill/volume_II/trailer/qt_large.html

[HorseradishTree]

Well, Vol. 2 managed to live up to its predecessor, and even, in my opinion, surpassed it in greatness.

I'm really glad that David Carradine managed to do a great job acting. It's about time he got recognized some more. Quentin Tarantino has surpassed many, slowly riding towards the top of the list on my favorite directors.

These two films are masterpieces.

[tabuno]

Oscar nominations are ripe for the director, writer, and cast. This is one of the highest rated films of the year - in the top 250 (#164) on IMDb.

Volume delves deep into character, cinematography, directing, genre exposure of martial arts, western soap opera music, twist and turns, vulnerability and human emotions, along with a fusion of humor and literal blackness.

This is a new, creative, bold leap into a contemporary, independent look at using the best of the past film techniques and making an innovative film without losing its soul that Volume One was close to doing.

[Johann]

The first time I've "jumped" in my theatre seat in a long time. Maybe the volume levels (no pun intended) were way too loud, but both scenes with shotgun blasts scared the shit out of me. (Everything is fairly quiet, and then BLAM!)

The film compliments Vol. 1 perfectly, but I actually prefer the first one.

Vol. 2 was a little too talky for me. That Hanzo sword didn't get as much use as it did in Vol. 1.
The soundtrack was kick-ass only IN PARTS. QT! There was no song in Vol. 2 (aside from the Johnny Cash lament) that matches "Please don't let me be misunderstood". Where's the rockin' tunes?
And I must say, as implausible as Vol. 1 was, Vol. 2 took the implausibility to new heights- especially with Uma at Budd's trailer in the desert. She gets blasted with a shotgun (she survives?!) and is buried alive with no chance of escape. Sorry, but her "escape" from that coffin was NOT believable. I don't care if she trained with Pei Mei for a thousand years, she would not have escaped that coffin. 1. The dirt would come caving in the coffin as soon as she's punching holes in it. 2. She's got approx 6 feet of dirt to climb through *vertically* 3. I find it hard to believe that Budd didn't mace her or check her for escape tools. (He already took a blade off her belt!)

Don't get me wrong: Vol. 2 kicked ass. I loved it but I'm a little critical this time around. And I loved Carradine's Superman speech! Any comic book fan would love that bit.

[Chris Knipp]

Saw it today. I think I like Vol 2 better than 1, but more than LOTR I think the parts ought to really be considered as one movie. With a long intermission, let's say. I. will put together detailed comments in the next few days. Thanks for the Dave Kehr reference, because I am not expert in the stuff Tarantino makes reference to. Definitely this establishes Tarantino as a huge cinematic artist. It's all so beautifully put together, so focused, so pretty visually, and so clear, in construction and logic as well as dialogue and image. But it also alienates people who don't get it and don't like QT even further -- so I'm thinking; or were they sufficiently alienated already? I wasn't aware he had so many enemies; but come to think of it, The New Yorker (whose reviews I often respect and always read) trashed Pulp Fiction when it came out, on the basis of the structure.

Johann--You are right that there is some implausibility in Vol.2 and the escape from the living grave is a good choice; but come on! It's all pure fun! You're not supposed to take it seriously. By the same token we are all more critical this time around because the themes and setup of Kill Bill are no longer a surprise any more, and we can look at the lengths of scenes and the casting and stuff like that more cooly. I'm not entirely overwhelmed with the use of Carradine or of Madsen. T has this tendency to use actors because they have a cult value for him regardless of their suitability otherwise, or their age, or anything else, and this emotional, cultish casting doesn't always work.

[HorseradishTree]

SPOILERS SPOILERS





The ammunition that Budd used was rock salt. It won't kill ya, but damn, it'll hurt.

It's interesting to hear Johann say that The Bride punching her way out of the coffin was absurd. After killing the entire Crazy 88 gang (as well as Oren-Shii) all by herself and getting shot in the head and surviving, you think that THIS is absurd? I'm pretty sure Pai-Mei coulda done it, so why can't she?

[Chris Knipp]

I agree with you. Think of Tarantino's plot in Kill Bill as a series of Ripley's Believe It or Not pieces. What about the recovery from the coma? The recovery of mobility in the Pussy Wagon? That sequence is quite similar to the escape from the grave. As for getting through the dirt, I'm not so sure that's physically impossible. Where there's a will there's a way, and this is no ordinary lady. But if you want plausibility you better go to another movie.

What do you know about shotgun blasts of rock salt, though? Is this a device actually used somewhere?

Is there a physician in the house?

[Johann]

Yeah, I have to relax about the Kill Bill films.
They're sensational fun. It's just on first viewing of movies I usually just stare and try to get a precise first impression. Repeat viewings allow me to see them for what they are. I've only seen Vol. 2 once.


The cinematography "Wurldly" was an appropriate award *we should pat ourselves on the back*. Bob Richardson is one of the premiere directors of photography in the business. His next film is
The Aviator with Scorsese.


I heard a rumour that Tarantino played the part of Pei Mei in the film. Can anyone confirm? I heard he was in a prosthetic mask/wig and worked under the pseudonym "Gordon Liu".

[Chris Knipp]

I think if you read that Dave Kehr article about the sources of Kill Bill you'll find that Pai Mei wasn't QT. There's a whole section on Gordon Liu so he must be real, and I don't exactly think QT's Chinese is so good, Mandarin or Cantonese. I looked it up yesterday and I hate to say such things but for us it's kind of a must-read:

New York Times original source: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/movies/11KEHR.html?ex=1397016000&en=9cb0f22bc4e5a240&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND
also at The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/16/1082055652444.html?from=storyrhs

Now I've given away my secret because I intend to crib shamelessly from Kehr's piece to write my review of Kill Bill 2.


Definitely, Kill Bill 1 & 2 is wonderful looking visually. I wonder how he gets that bright, luscious look.

[HorseradishTree]

Um, Gordon Liu's an actual guy. He was a famous martial artist back in the seventies. My personal favorite film of his is Shaolin meets Wu Tang . Oh, the memories.

One thing that IS true is that Tarantino does Pai Mei's voice. That's his only role, performance-wise, in the film.

[Chris Knipp]

Thanks for clearing that up; and I checked and you're right, though I still have to figure out how it works, since I doubt very much that QT is fluent in Chinese. Can you explain that?

As I said, this is explained, about the Shaw Brothers, the Shaolin series and Gordon Liu, in Dave Kehr's "Kill Bill Vol. 2: a bluffer's guide, published in the NYTimes a week or so ago. However, Kehr doesn't point out that Tarantino does a voice for Liu.

Again, I recommend the Dave Kehr cheat sheet, though it doesn't obviously explain everything about Vol. 2 that we may want to know:


New York Times original source: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/movies/11KEHR.html?ex=1397016000&en=9cb0f22bc4e5a240&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND
also at The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/16/1082055652444.html?from=storyrhs

[Chris Knipp]

Originally posted by HorshradishTree:
One thing that IS true is that Tarantino does Pai Mei's voice. That's his only role, performance-wise, in the film.

Not true.

This is a mistake that got spread around because IMDb listed it that way for a while (they've corrected the error at the site). What happened was that originally QT wanted to have the dialogue in the Pai Mei sequence all done in badly post-sunk English like a Chinese martial arts movie with the actors mouthing words in Chinese, and then he would have dubbed the voice of Pai Mei (Gordon Liu). The idea was dropped but the mistaken attribution took hold.

No way in hell could QT have done Pai Mei's voice. You think he speaks perfect Cantonese and Mandarin? Watch the scenes. I saw the movie again today and I have posted a review of it on my website for those who'd care to read it: http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/viewtopic.php?p=296#296

[HorseradishTree]

Hmm, thanks. I'm sorry for spreading the fallacy.

[Chris Knipp]

You were not alone--it was all over the Internet.

[oscar jubis]

I finally saw the second half of Kill Bill about a week ago. My reaction to the film surprised me. Especially now, after reading the accolades from fellow members with whom I often agree. Johann rightly called it "talky" somewhere in the site. It's not only the amount of dialogue here but the way the delivery of the lines is slowed. Characters sound like they are convinced they are always saying something witty and clever. Everyone is a self-important wiseass. My least favorite, to put it mildly, film directed by QT comes six years after the last one. Not a good sign. It's a celebration of cruelty and revenge bereft of new ideas. The man-boy trying to outdo his favorite scenes from disposable action genres. I was prepared to watch a morally dubious movie full of implausibilities and one-dimensional characters. I did not prepare for banality after banality and a complete lack of any sense of surprise and discovery (particularly after the twist at the end of "volume 1"). There are many American directors who actually deserve the attention QT gets from the media.

[Johann]

I agree completely.

One thing that struck me the third time I saw it was the fact that the story isn't all that great.

So you have an assassination squad with a leader named Bill who has "relations" with a female member. She gets pregnant and has this epiphany that being an assassin is not exactly good for her baby.

So she leaves town (and Bill). Bill is naturally unhappy about this. He "gets her back". QT made a 3-hour+ film based on this idea. Now, I have a very high regard for the Tarantula. He's a film freak, his intentions are good, I share his enthusiasm for cinema.

But surely he could have come up with something more worthy? Kill Bill is inspired by chop-socky, Leone and Kurosawa, among other deities, but it's not simply enough for Tarantino to keep "outdoing his favorite scenes" as you say. He'll slip into the sea of predictability if he's not careful. In the future I never want to say "that was typical Tarantino". He's got skills that he's not tapping into- his cinema acumen is keen enough to be original AND honorary. Kubrick was original and honorary and you could never exactly pin-point his inspiration. Quentin is easily pegged and easily understood if you've seen a lot of films.
I'm not saying I wouldn't watch his films if they settled into "typical Tarantino" (I would), but he's shown that he's capable of film originality without overwhelming medium reflection.

We get it, Quentin: you love movies. Now let's see something really amazing from you.

[oscar jubis]

Originally posted by Johann
One thing that struck me the third time I saw it was the fact that the story isn't all that great. QT made a 3-hour+ film based on this idea.But surely he could have come up with something more worthy?

Exactly. It's too rehashed and thin a premise to spread over the 4 hours and 7 minutes duration of the combined "volumes". But somehow there are many out there who love it. IMDb voters have placed vol. 1 at 76th and vol. 2 at 122th best film of all time!
I was forced to read The New Yorker because it was the only choice of reading material at the vet's office yesterday. Denby wrote that QT has "lost his ear" for dialogue, which becomes a huge problem in vol. 2, with long stretches of blab sprouting from poseurs masquerading as characters.

[tabuno]

It was the action in the Part One that detracted away from the real acting and the dialogue "talking" that I enjoyed in Part Two that made this section of the movie resonant. Action only goes so far towards character development that I was so glad to see become more insightful in Part Two. Kill Bill, particularly Part Two remains one of my top choices of this year. It looks like I'm going to have to wait for Part Two to come out on DVD before I can definitely claim to know what the critics of critics are talking about.

[Chris Knipp]

There is no doubt that Carradine in Kill Bill 2 is a bit of a windbag at times. There is no doubt that the length of the battle in the nightclub in Kill Bill 1 is a bit over the top. Neither of these shortcomings or longgoings is sufficient to mar the wonderfulness of these two connected films. If there is anything more cinematic and entertaining produced during the past two years I haven't heard about it.

[Johann]

Amen on that Chris.

We can be nitpicky because we love the films. If I met QT we'd get along like hammer and nail.

I gotta get my mind off of this political shit. It's not me.
My world isn't affected one iota by Bush, Cheney, Saddam, Paul Martin or even Al Franken. Politics is brutally nasty, and "it's not my bag, baby".

Where's everybody else's impressions on Fahrenheit? Surely they've seen it by now. I guess canadians are the only ones who feel strongly enough to speak up! *nudge nudge* :)



Kill Bill vol. 1 was on TV yesterday. I love that one. Vol. 2 is just not rockin' enough for me. It's great, I love it, it's a perfect match for Vol. 1, but I was expecting serious bombast. I got serious backstory.

I'm knocking QT! Please don't anybody think I'm critcizing the man- I hold him in high regard for what he's done for cinema and I'm allowed to lament!

[Chris Knipp]

I don't feel your disappointment with Kill Bill 2 because I think 2 is as good as 1. Maybe you prefer 1 because the whole idea was all new and fresh when you first saw it. What's wrong with backstory? In my view, backstory is the essence of the Tarantino style -- as I said in writing about Kill Bill on my site. But anyway, -- you and I seem to be the most pro-QT pro-Kill Bill people here at FilmWurld --

Just returned from 3 weeks on the E. Coast Wed. and didn't see Farenheit 9/11 till Tuesday. I expect to write about it and reply specifically to its critics when I get back up to speed-- just give me a minute.

[HorseradishTree]

I don't have anything against his movies. In fact, Vol. 2 blew my pants off. But please, Quentin, for the sake of your morality, get a darn lesson in humility!

[Chris Knipp]

But please, Quentin, for the sake of your morality, get a darn lesson in humility!

1. What morality?

2. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, HorseRadish. That's not his style.

[HorseradishTree]

I should have used a different word. But it was around 1 am when I wrote that and things were twirling around in my head.

I'm really not directing any of that at his films. They're great the way they are. But the guy could be a little more humble when talking about his films. We know they're fantastic, and he doesn't have to tell us.

[Chris Knipp]

I was just kidding. I knew what you meant. But I repeat, humility is just not QT's style or personality. He's full of himself and his enthusiasms -- it's more enthusiasm than ego, I think-- and there's no repressing that.