Dawn of justice: Wtf

[Johann]

I've seen the trailer for Zack Snyder's batman vs. superman: Dawn of Justice and I'm simply stunned with how much Jesse Eisenberg sucks as Lex Luthor. What bizarro over-acting shit is this? Lex Luthor never "acts insane"- his actions may be, but his countenance never belies that fact.

I refuse to see this movie as a result. I can't get past how much Eisenberg's performance sux. The blame goes on Zack Snyder.
Is this a joke, Zack?
WTF is going on here? This movie is a giant cartoon!

[Johann]

I'm a HUGE batman fan and a Huge superman fan- and I loved Man of Steel. This movie should be tailor-made for a fanboy like me. But I am revolted. And not by Ben Affleck. It's Jesse Eisenberg, full-stop.
What the hell is he doing?
I had an argument with a comic book shop manager here in Ottawa about it. He defended Jesse's performance, saying Lex Luthor would do absolutely anything to fuck with Superman, including "acting insane". I wasn't buying it. Lex Luthor has a history, and it's quite a clear one: he's a cunning intellect. So cunning in fact, that he does not need to "act" insane to one-up Superman. I could see him doing it for a few fleeting moments, but throughout an entire film? No way. It's wrong. It's not "groundbreaking", "interesting", or "cutting edge" to have Lex stray so far from his historical ways. It makes no sense to me. Jesse should've been reigned in or the script should've been re-written. And by the way, that trailer reveals EVERYTHING. The whole movie's plot is basically on dispaly with that third official trailer. Zack Snyder is one of my heroes, and he's lost me with this one. I have no interest in seeing it, and I worshipped Man of Steel!

Zack, you've got some explaining to do...

[Chris Knipp]

I object to trailers that tell you everything, and since a good number of them do, it's better not to watch trailers. Nonetheless, since we're talking about this, I wish you'd give the link to the trailer you watched.

There seem to be defenders of Eisenberg's Lex, such as:
http://www.mtv.com/news/2679820/lex-luthor-batman-v-superman/ (http://www.mtv.com/news/2679820/lex-luthor-batman-v-superman/) -- and I saw there were others.

Thought comic book movies were "giant cartoons."

Jesse Eisenberg can often be rather annying. He certainly is in the upcoming Louder Than Bombs; he's meant to be in The Social Network as Zuckerberg and I love that film. Fifty-fifty in The End of the Tour. I like Kelly Reichardt's Night Moves and him in the main role in it; that showed he can be something other than the shrill Jewish boy when given the chance.

[Johann]

I'm aware that I look ridiculous by slamming a comic book movie (and shying away from the cinemas yet again) but allow me to defend myself.

I've pretty much loved every movie Zack Snyder's made so far. Even his Romero remake wasn't bad. I want to love this movie, but when I see that acting, I'm revolted, totally turned off. maybe that's the point? But if so, WHY? It makes no sense to have Lex portrayed in that way. Chris Nolan is involved with the Superman reboot with Snyder, and his Batman is taken seriously. By me, and by Legions of others. Man of Steel was as serious as you can make a comic book character like Superman, just like Watchmen, another Zack Snyder classic. It's not supposed to be cartoonish. Was The Dark Knight a fucking cartoon? No.

Kevin Spacey said that he wishes Jesse Eisenberg well, and that he'll "Kill It" as Lex. I'm still not buying it. Is Jesse not over-acting in those trailers?
I should be super-stoked for this movie. I'm really turned off from seeing it, and it's all Jesse Eisenberg. I'll link the trailer shortly here...

[Johann]

Your link is very helpful. Who gives a shit who Max Landis is? And why did Zack allow him to be "inspiration" for Jesse??
Those are my questions.
That quote: "Remember, he's Lex Luthor Jr." doesn't mean jack shit to me. That still doesn't excuse his atrocious acting.

[Chris Knipp]

But again, I'd like you go give us the links to the trailers you watched. What I found had very little of Jesse.

[Johann]

Here it is. Pay strict attention to Jesse Eisenberg. Yes his shots are brief, but Lord are they awful. Each scene he's in is horrible. He's WRONG, out of place, INSANE.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVili3gie2c


This video is unvailable, YET IT IS!
It's listed as "NEW Batman v Superman trailer" from the Jimmy Kimmel show. Why the fuck won't it link? And why isn't there another trailer exactly like it? This shit is fucked...

[Chris Knipp]

I think what you're talking about is provided in this VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6nSBxl9LFk). I just searched "jesse eisenberg as lex luther" in YouTube. I gather the original Lex Luther comic book villain character was a bald tough guy, and Eisenberg delivers a more soft, feminine version of the villain. I feel your pain at the decline in machismo. I'm thinking the comic book image would suit Woody Harrelson. And Gary Oldman?

[Johann]

Yes that's the video- sorry for not replying sooner.

Yes indeed- why not Gary Oldman as Lex Luthor? or Brian Cranston? An actor with gravitas?
I saw Jesse Eisenberg on Jimmy Fallon's show recently, and the clip they showed of him confirmed for me that he is terrible in this role. He said on the show that his Lex is an "interesting character", but I don't find him interesting at all. Lex is usually bald, but has been known to wear wigs, so I don't really care about his hair. But his "feminine" qualities irk me, as does his voice and attitude, which strikes me as about as tough and intimidating as a constipated Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory.
His casting is just plain wrong. It's mystifying. I don't know why they went with Jesse. He adds no depth to the role, nothing whatsoever in the way of cementing his legacy in an Iconic part. I don't believe in him as Lex. It's that simple. I'll be curious to see what people think of the movie (and Jesse's role and Ben Affleck's) but I'm not excited by this movie, as I've said. I'll wait for the DVD. Zack Snyder said that Ben's Bruce Wayne is great, so I wonder what's going on there. Jimmy Fallon mentioned that this movie is LOUD, with lots of Big-Bangs-and-Booms, so be warned.

[Chris Knipp]

It is of more concern to you than me. Jesse Eisenberg has gained more prominence than I'd have expected. He makes little physical impression, and is definitely a nerdy, neurotic type.

[Chris Knipp]

BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE has been widely panned. Its Metacritic rating is 44%. A.O. Scott of the NY Times says:
Review: ‘Batman v Superman’ ... v Fun?

The film, pitting Ben Affleck against Henry Cavill, largely serves as an extended trailer for a slate of coming DC Comics movies like "Wonder Woman." The film I just reviewed (http://www.filmleaf.net/showthread.php?4129-ALICE-AND-THE-EXTRAORDINARY-WORLD-(Christian-Desmares-Franck-Ekinci-205)), APRIL AND THE EXTRAORDINARY WORLD, has gotten raves: Metacritic 87%.

[Chris Knipp]

Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Here is the essential from A.O. Scott's NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/movies/review-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-when-super-friends-fight.html?emc=edit_fm_20160325&nl=movies&nlid=22852861) review:
A diverting entertainment might have been made about the rivalry between these two muscle-bound paladins — a bromance or a buddy comedy, an album of duets. “Batman v Superman,” directed by Zack Snyder (“300,” “Watchmen,” “Sucker Punch,” “Man of Steel”), is none of those things. It is about as diverting as having a porcelain sink broken over your head (one of the more amusing things that happens onscreen). In keeping with current business imperatives, what Mr. Snyder has concocted is less a free-standing film than the opening argument in a very long trial. Its two-and-a-half-hour running time — not so much a “dawn” as an entire morning spent watching the clock in anticipation of lunchtime — is peppered with teasers for coming sequels. I have seen the movie myself, but since nobody is paying me, I'm not going to write a full length review. What I will say in the context of our thread is that, Johann, you are absolutely right: Jesse Eisenberg is poorly cast as Lex Luther. That's not the only example of poor casting! Jeremy Irons as Alfie, for instance. Michael Caine accessed his Cockney origins in his voice, good for a butler, but Irons is too posh looking and sounding. Eisenberg might be scary in the way that a naughty teenager loose in your house might be scary, but not blockbuster superhero scary. He lacks the gravitas or the power necessary for a comic book villain. Notice Scott's put-down. His only comment is:
Jesse Eisenberg, as a tech-twerpy Lex Luthor, certainly earned some money. I'll see if I can cull some lengthier critiques of Jesse-Lex from the reviews.

Bt apart from any commentary on individual casting, this is just a hodgepodge that lost my interest right at the beginning with its choppy series of short unrelated sequences and its barrage of CGI of collapsing buildings that we have seen a hundred times before. Just as Scott says, it's like watching a trailer, especially at first.

Eye in the Sky.

There is another film, EYE IN THE SKY, much higher rated (Metacritic 72) that opened in the cineplex, and I was watching it when I was called out for an emergency at home. I hope to finish watching it and write something about it. It's about the morality of drone kills, and it features the late Alan Rickman and Helen Mirren. Here's a summary:
Summary: Through remote surveillance and on-the-ground intel, Colonel Katherine Powell (Helen Mirren), a UK-based military officer in command of a top secret drone operation to capture terrorists in Kenya discovers the targets are planning a suicide bombing and the mission escalates from "capture" to "kill." But as American pilot Steve Watts (Aaron Paul) is about to engage, a nine-year old girl enters the kill zone triggering an international dispute, reaching the highest levels of US and British government, over the moral, political, and personal implications of modern warfare.

[Chris Knipp]

Reviewers on Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luther.

Sometimes it's fun (or revealing anyway) to go through a bunch of reviews culled by Metacritic and compare them. What I find with this movie is that the critics get bogged down in summarizing (or making sense of) the plot, and don't have much time for more (not a problem of A.O.Scott, however). Perhaps they're just largely hacks grinding their way through a chore.

Not so Armond White, of course, this time in National Review (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433246/batman-v-superman-culture-war-gets-mythic), who once again shows his passion and originality in a review where he treats Snyder's film seriously as a great moral and cultural epic. I recommend what he has to say. White is already a fan of Snyder, and he says of Snyder's Batman, Superman and Lex Luther -- "All three characterization performances are, well, perfect." He treats the movie as, unlike Nolan's, full of contemporary social, moral, and cultural context, and thus he simply says of Jesse Eisenberg that he "played Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network and thus personifies the craven millennium." No other critic adopts White's exalted moral stance and contemporary perspective.

I'd agree with the Variety critic Andrew Barker that Eisenberg "provides the only real moments of levity in the film" (and this is what he contributes) and it needs them. It's hard finding any reviews that damn Jesse's Lex, except when they're being critical of the whole movie. He's Lex Luther's son, by the way, not Lex Luther. Most comments on him are positive while noting that his performance is a mixture of bits from his other roles; and that, while his character is a lynchpin in the plot -- he's the one who sets Batman and Superman against each other, he's also largely irrelevant.

Rene Rodriguez, Miami Herald: " Only Jesse Eisenberg, as the maniacally evil Lex Luthor, seems to be trying to do something different with his role: He lets you see the wires short-circuiting inside the villain’s head when he schemes. But the movie has no use for him other than as a plot device, a mechanism to set certain events in motion, with no apparent motivation."

Ben Nicholson, Cine-Vue: "Jesse Eisenberg completes the triumvirate with Lex Luthor as a twitchy, screechy riff on his own Mark Zuckerberg. The colourful and kooky tech billionaire, all designer trainers and boiled sweets, is a nice twist for a modern iteration of Lex, but the writing is horribly unconvincing with regards to his intellect - throwing Euclid into a conversation won't pass for smarts. He's more awkward spoiled brat than charismatic genius."

James Berardinelli, ReelViews: "On the other hand, Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor is a breath of fresh air. Gone is the bumbling, semi-comedic version essayed by Gene Hackman and the Kevin Spacey’s more sinister one. Since this vision of Luthor is as a psychotic Mark Zuckerberg, who better to play him than the actor who did such a phenomenal job in The Social Network? Luthor’s endgame is obtuse but he’s brilliant and unhinged and that makes for a great supervillain. Plus, he’s got Kryptonite."

Nick De Semlyen, Empire Online: "Then along comes Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor. Sporting a Banksy T-shirt, chomping on Jolly Ranchers and throwing random 'Mmm!'s into his maniacal monologues, the character is going to be an acquired taste — it’s not difficult to imagine him popping up in one of the Joel Schumacher Batman films. Less up for discussion are his schemes, which are both numerous and not massively well thought out, despite the fact he frequently appears to be omniscient. One explosive set-piece, in particular, is visually impactful but has no real effect on the story."

I might just add that while Eisenberg may come across as a lightweight, he is smart, and can convey smartness along with bad character. That is why he was chosen for The Social Network and was so good in it: smartness without an ounce of finesse or charm. In my experience Eisenberg can be truly scary: he is so in Kelly Reichardt's 2013 Night Moves (http://www.filmleaf.net/showthread.php?3761-NIGHT-MOVES-(Kelly-Reichardt-2013)) (which I reviewed here), an excellent, little-seen film about eco-terrorists. But Eisenberg is a different person in that film, not the jittery twit he plays so often but someone dark and secret. I wish he'd play that kind of role more often.

[Johann]

I'm glad I'm vindicated. Ha ha.

So this is just a trailer for a slate of DC movies. I expected more from Zack Snyder, with such a huge film, what with Wonder Woman's first screen appearance and all...
It's done bonkers money at the box office, but I could tell that this one was bad months before we saw a frame.

[Chris Knipp]

I just don't think Jesse Eisenberg is the kind of actor for such a role, he doesn't have the histrionic skills or the physical malleability. Consider, in contrast, Heath Ledger for instance as The Joker in The Dark Knight. He not only had a scary strong presence, but he was completely transformed from they way we usually saw him. Jesse is just more of what he usually is. That doesn't mean he can't be good in certain roles. I've seen and reveiwed him in
The Squid and the Whale - perfect
Holy Rollers -- surprising and engaging
The Social Network - Just right as the brilliant young prick
The Newsroom - I don't remember him but that's a good sign, loved this series
Night Moves - I've mentioned; this is a great unappreciated movie and he's central
The End of the Tour - as the irritating journalist with David Foster Wallace; works
Louder Than Bombs - Extremely irritating again, but again it works

Meanwhile he has had many other roles, which have made him highly visible in Hollywood I suppose, hence he was thought of inappropriately for this: he was not up for the role.

[Johann]

We can agree that Jesse was miscast. I still don't know why they went with a "tech-twerp" Lex (Lex's son?!). I heard that Batman and Superman basically forget about Lex at one point and fight each other. (?!)

This movie really annoys me. This should be a badass kick-off to the Justice League, to DC's newfound domination of the Seventh Art, which I'm keen to see, as I know it can be done better than the Marvel films. But alas, it's just hype. Zack is the most qualified for the job- I vet him myself- but man, I don't know what's going on here. You can't fail with these characters. They're foolproof!
Man of Steel was fantastic. So why does the sequel offer these weird items:
1.Why is Metropolis so close to Gotham? To save money?
2.Why does Clark's mother say to him that he doesn't owe earthlings anything? Catwoman said that to Bruce in The Dark Knight Rises!
3. Jeremy Irons- you're right Chris- Michael Caine was fine, exemplar even as Alfred. Why change what was perfect?

I was contemplating seeing this anyways due to my fanboy loyalty to the DC Gods. But just seeing it for Henry Cavill & the lovely Amy Adams is not enough.
This movie could've (and should've) been a hulking beast, but it looks like quite a loud dud.

[Chris Knipp]

"They" may have wanted a tech-twerp to be up-to-date. Michael Caine is getting old; maybe he didn't want to do it any more. I can't understand your other more technical questions. I'd probably go and see it anyway just for Henry Cavill and Amy Adams and out of loyalty to the genre, but I see everything. Except that I didn't stay to the end, my attention flagged and the audience bugged me, it was crowded and a guy was fidgety behind me. I might sneak back in to see the end. But I said I'd see Mad Max again to understand what all the fuss was about and I never did so.

[Johann]

I hate the really big crowds too. And the figeters...and the bag russlers...and the serial coughers, crying babies..sticky floors from spilled pop, seat Nazis (I love the "Could you move one seat over so my wife and I can sit together..." Ive been the victim of that infuriating practice more than once. It sux. Cuz when I pick my seat I like to stay there!

Although the movie may be a dud, Dawn of Justice has a killer tie-in situation with DC Comics. I bought several of the polybagged special issues (I.E. the 50th issues of Batman, Superman, and even Aquaman). They are Awesome, The variant covers..Holy Shit are they cool. And in case no one knows, Frank Miller has released the first 3 issues of DKIII, the third installment of his Iconic Batman. I bought all three of course, with astounding variant covers. Pricy, but so worth it if you love comic art. This series is called The Master Race, and I was told it runs for 8 issues. They also include first issue mini-comics inserted into the middle of the books- I got The Atom (with a Frank Miller cover), Green Lantern and Wonder Woman. Looking forward to the rest.

The polybagged issues are special issues, and have special covers, frameable stuff. They are all themed with Batman vs. Superman of course, and are a real treat to read. (I never grew up. LOL)

[Chris Knipp]

That's why since you're such a fan I thought you ought to see it. I'm a completist. You don't go out and face the bag rustlers enough! (Just joking: one can sit far away from them, I try to avoid people when I'm in a commercial theater, though I've observed that when the seats are packed full, people behave better.)

[Johann]

I don't face the bag russlers enough. LOL True. I'm seeing Michael Moore's Where to Invade Next this week. Eventually I'll brave the cinemas. Pardon my procrastination, I'm still a movie buff.

Speaking of moviegoing pet peeves, the thing I hate the most is when I'm sitting in my seat alone for quite awhile (usually middle of the row, in one of the first 5 rows) and someone (or more people) sit right directly behind me, and start up stupid chit-chat right up until the movie begins, loudly eating and often kicking the back of my seat. I often go alone to movies, and this is torture. To sit there with clowns behind you at a seat you cherry-picked so you don't wanna move and you can't say a word, lest they think you're a mental case and a bad scene erupts...I loathe that situation, and that also has happened to me more than once.

[Chris Knipp]

In that instance I would just move, and that's an advantage of being by yourself; you can move without consulting with or or offending anybody.

[Johann]

That's true. If the offenders are really bad I do move, and I may mutter something loud enough for them to hear, depending on my mood, something like "I'm here to watch a movie, not to be seen and talk a lot and say nothing", and watch their response. :)

The path of least resistance is ideal, and being quiet is sometimes the best choice.
It's never been so bad that I walk out of a movie because of another person in the theatre. I've never walked out due to the crowd. The movie, Yes. The crowd, No.

[Chris Knipp]

This is something that is nice about Paris, or at least the nicer cinemas in Paris. There is a tradition of being very quiet. And they don't bring a lot of snacks in. They also, as in festival screenings, sit still and don't walk out till most of the credits have rolled,k out of respect.

[Johann]

Yes, that's one of the great things about film festivals- you know there are people there who love cinema as much as you do or more.
My memories of the 24th VIFF are vivid still- meeting James Benning and Larry Kent, watching Tommy Chong's priosn doc WITH HIM< HIS WIFE and the DIRECTOR...stuff like that you only see at festivals, and makes them way more important to me. Too bad I have a strange aversion to the process tho..:)

I heard the USA has more film consumers than any other country. That's a Great thing that America always had- a lock on movies. How Mythological is Hollywood? I'll be seeing Batman v Superman today, BTW. I'm biting the bullet, and I'll post about it. This one where I have to bite the bullet and see I think, and I hate people bipping about movies they've never seen, so I should see it, even if I end up hating the movie.

[Chris Knipp]

Good. Yes, that's right. Don't knock what you don't know firsthand.

[Johann]

Well I've seen the movie, and it's a mixed bag.
The first 15-20 minutes showed great promise, then it was all over the map. I'll break down my impressions, The Good Bad and Ugly:

GOOD:
The opening was pretty intense, re-capping Man of Steel's epic Zod/Superman fight with Bruce Wayne's reaction from "across the bay".
Henry Cavill and Amy Adams are secure in their roles, and they did a good job. However, as good as they were, their characters didn't really evolve that much from Man of Steel, and Superman is disturbingly aloof from the destruction he was part and parcel of.
Ben Affleck is alright as Batman. The only complaint I have is he's a bit faceless. He's a smart Batman and he's a tough Batman. I particularly liked him putting his foot on Superman's chest. Doomsday was a nice surprise-created from the corpse of Zod. The CGI was quite amazing for Doomsday. The cameos for Cyborg, Aquaman and The Flash were cool. I also liked how big Batman and Superman are. Ben Affleck is in shape here, and Henry Cavill is bigger than he was in Man of Steel. He's got the physique to play Superman. These guys at least looked like titans. I also liked the fact that Zack put Excalibur on the marquee the night of Bruce Wayne's parents murder. It makes it contemporary to 2016. Did anyone notice the Kubrick references? I noticed three: The Shostakovitch Waltz II playing at the party where Bruce meets Diana. Icarus is referenced and I saw some swastikas...there may have been more. I loved the references to comic book panels and lore- the geeks are probably lovin' it. It was nice to see the attention paid to "The Death of Superman"- coffin, etc.

BAD:
The story. It's disjointed. It jumps around a lot, and it doesn't flow into a seamless powerful narrative. I think the movie gets away from Zack Snyder because he's juggling too many characters and too many plot points. Lex Luthor is obsolete here. He's completely un-needed. He is nothing more than a plot device. Who really cares about his dialogue or actions? He creates Doomsday from Zod's dead body- you could get anyone to do that- a janitor could do it, and you wouldn't need Jesse Eisenberg's shrill, over-acting over-the-top travesty of a performance. I do not see Lex Luthor at all in him. Lex is nowhere in this movie. You could call Jesse's character "Kyle Bloggins" and it wouldn't change anything. Lex Luthor is a formidable villain in Superman comics, and what Jesse Eisenberg gives us is some craptastic bonkers histrionics that leaves you wondering how much he was paid to be so terrible.

UGLY:
Wonder Woman steals the show from batman and superman. Her brief scenes in costume were better than the whole fight with batman & superman, which ended weird- "Martha"? My Dear...This film was way too long. If you shaved 45 minutes, cut out Lex Luthor, cut out other useless scenes and amped up the fight between Batman and Superman, you'd have a pretty great movie. Why didn't they write the script to have Bats and Supes stop fighting each other to turn their attention to Doomsday, maybe even leaving out Wonder Woman- she could've been the cliffhanger ending/teaser.

[Johann]

Other plusses the movie had going for it: the introduction of the Batmobile was exciting. A great chase sequence, with machine guns and mayhem. I liked this Batman's batmobile and jet and other gadgets. Homages to Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns were great- Batman with his rifle, for one. I liked the Elseworlds-style dream sequence too.

Where was the real Lex Luthor? If he has to be in this movie, then make him the genuine article. Seriously, Eisenberg is a fish out of water, embarrassing. You watch him speak & twitch and you wonder "what's going through his head?"
Max von Sydow would make a great Lex Luthor. He was awesome in the new Star Wars, let him in a superhero flick again, like he did with Flash Gordon.
Is there plans for Eisenberg to reprise his role? With his shorn head? Lordy Begordy I hope not. lol

So yeah, you can see the Batsignal from Metropolis, Batman and Superman stop fighting and team up because their mothers have the same name. I found it interesting that the sentiment thru this movie is kind like "No one is Heroic- you may be a good person, but eventually you cave". I loved it when Superman smashed shit up & told Bruce that the Batman is dead, and if he wanted it, he'd be dead already. That was Boss. So was Superman as a corpse floating out in space- nice touch there. I've seen something similar in the comics...
This is a "boys with their toys" superhero movie. Aestheticly it's very appealing- I also liked the scene where Aquaman appears- in a sunken ship's hull. He looks interesting. They're not making him look lame, a very wise move. Aquaman gets a bad rap, but I love the character. He covers more territory than land-lubbers, and it's only him, the only King of the Seven Seas! No pretenders to the throne. He is Lono.

Perry White was given nothing to do. Why waste a fine acting icon like Lawrence Fishburne? He went through a lot in Man of Steel, and he seems unaffected by it. He's a little more animated in Dawn of Justice, but he literally had nothing to do.