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Chris Knipp
12-25-2015, 08:12 PM
QUENTIN TARANTINO: THE HATEFUL EIGHT (2015)

http://www.chrisknipp.com/links/th8.jpg
KURT RUSSELL, SAMUEL L. JACKSON IN THE HATEFUL EIGHT (SHOWING 2.76:1 FORMAT)

Agatha Christie Western

Returning to something of the confinement of Reservoir Dogs, Tarantino's deliciously complicated 8th movie nearly all takes place inside one big cold drafty place, Minnie's Haberdashery [sic], a way station in the Wyoming mountains en route to the town of Red Rock where some travelers hole up to wait out a blizzard. There are a few spectacular snowy landscapes, but for the most part this is a mystery, like Agatha Christie, suspicious characters confined to a room. Old fashioned trappings include chapter divisions, an Intermission, and a splendid score composed by Ennio Morricone. But the action is pared down (sort of) to its essence: the dialogue (is there ever anything else?) -- and the violence. For this is a Western and before it's over, as in any classic shoot-out, most of the characters (and more) will be dead -- though not before horror-movie gore and threatening speeches delivered while in horrible pain. It's 6 or 8 or 12 years after the end of the Civil War and bounty hunters collide with charlatans and knaves during the howling storm. Minnie is nowhere to be found, and a Mexican called Bob (Demian Bichir, the drug lord mayor of Tijuana in "Weeds") is in charge. They spend a lot of time introducing themselves to each other. You could fill a handbook with the back stories. Later a lot of the them will turn out to be false.

The sense of danger and suspicion in a confined space is something Tarantino explored in Inglorious Basterds' risky basement card game, and the hiding under the floor theme also is essential to that film's drawn out opening dominated by Christolph Waltz. Skillful rearranging of point of view and chronology, which are key here, first appeared memorably in Pulp Fiction. And incidentally the foregrounding of an under appreciated or neglected actor (Waltz, Travolta, Grier et al.) happens here notably with "Sheriff" Chris Mannix, a role that will give Walton Goggins new stature. Newcomers to the QT stage but vets on screen are Bruce Dern as Confederate General Sandy Smithers and Jennifer Jason Leigh as unrepentant murderer Daisy Domergue, who is horribly abused throughout but never seems to mind, or be fazed. The stark authenticity of Dern's line readings contrasts with the tongue-in-cheek charm of Jackson, Goggins, or the fake-educated officiousness of Tim Roth as Oswaldo Mobray, an alleged traveling hangman. Daisy is to be hanged in Red Rock, and she's being delivered by John "The Hangman" Ruth (a very bewhiskered Kurt Russell), a bounty hunter who insists on delivering his captives alive -- a policy Major Marquis Warren (a typically splendid Samuel L. Jackson) strongly disagrees with. Marquis Warren begs admission onto the coach with several dead ones, saying "Bringing guilty men in alive is a good way to get yourself killed."

For the fortunate, all this can be seen at theaters capable of so presenting it, in super-wide screen 2.76:1 ratio projected in 70 mm. as shot, on 65 mm. film using antique Panavision cameras, on film, and presented in "Roadshow" style with an Overture and an Intermission. The "Roadshow" version will be shown in many US cities and in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver, Canada. Tarantino's respect for film tradition and film history and his mastery of the medium are things that set him apart from the rest.

Of course, his relation to tradition is "problematic." His use of the N-word is more troublingly copious than in previous items in his oeuvre, even Django, which, being about slavery in the Deep South, was more clearly critical of white racism. It seems bizarre that while the ever-angry righteous, and conservative black film critic Armond White has published a diatribe against The Hateful Eight, on opening day in New York representatives of the Black Lives Matter movement stood in front of a theater in support of Tarantino's criticism of police. Perhaps the best one can say is that Tarantino is Tarantino.

It is always enjoyable to watch and listen as his dialogue and his plot lines unfold. According to the "Roadshow" brochure, The Hateful Eight began as a staged reading at a Los Angeles theater by Tarantino "regulars" in April 2014 that was to be "a standalone event," and an "overwhelming response" led to its being committed to 70mm. It is theatrical in conception, and shows a baroque, decadent turn, if that is not redundant for an artist who's always had those qualities. The Agatha Christie-style structure leads Tarantino to grow verbally and visually expository in the latter segments -- arguably, to a fault. And did we really need so many N-words, so brutally delivered, or so much gore?

The Hateful Eight, 168 mins., premiered in Los Angeles 7 Dec. 2015. Screened for this review in its 70mm. 187mins. version at New York City’s Village East cinema. Limited US release 25 Dec., further releases in Jan. 2016. Metacritic (https://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-hateful-eight) rating: 68%.

Johann
01-07-2016, 10:41 AM
This is the first Tarantino film that I'm not stoked up to see. The trailer doesn't impress me in any way, shape or form.
I appreciate the old-school format he chose. He used old cameras to do it. Your pic at the top of your review Chris is awesome.

But what is this film? Why is it needed? In what way is this story interesting? I'll always be in his corner, but this one just seems like a notch on his filmography belt that didn't earn it's place, totally perfunctory. I'm mystified. I expect a lot from Quentin, like I did from Stanley Kubrick. And this seems way below his formidible talent.

Chris Knipp
01-07-2016, 10:58 AM
I don't know how any film experience could equal the excitement and fun I felt watching Reservoir Dogs, True Romance, and Pulp Fiction for the first time, and The Hateful Eightwas nowhere on that level. However, it was solid movie pleasure of a kind only QT could provide to watch The Hateful Eight in 70mm., listen to Ennio Morricone's new music, revel in the juicy dialogue, and enjoy the acting by the whole, well used cast.
Tarantino has created another breathtakingly stylish and clever film, a Jacobean western, intimate yet somehow weirdly colossal, once again releasing his own kind of unwholesome crazy-funny-violent nitrous oxide into the cinema auditorium for us all to inhale.
--Peter Bradshow, GUARDIAN.

Johann
01-07-2016, 11:04 AM
Peter's quote makes me smile. Basterds was brilliant, Django was brilliant. There must be a dash of brilliance in The Hateful 8.
I'll see it, of course. But when I don't get jacked up for a QT film then something is rotten in Denmark...:)

Chris Knipp
01-07-2016, 11:30 AM
It's hard to get you to set foot in a cinema house these days for anything so reluctance re: Hateful Eis no huge surprise. See it though and in 70mm at a place with a big screen if you can. I do not think you will regret it.

Johann
01-07-2016, 01:40 PM
Yes it's very hard to get me into a theatre these days, something that used to be impossible. The reality is there is almost nothing worth seeing, nothing earth-shaking. I'm always conscious of whether or not a film would be a waste of a ticket. And 95% of all movies aren't worth my money. Movies today are so contrived and so concerned with box office over Art. My money is precious. I don't collect crap, I don't spend a penny on anything unless it's worth it. Canada's dollar is 71 cents to yours. I'm pulling off a miracle with the movie I'm making. I'm making it for way less than Kevin Smith made Clerks. (And my film is no fuckin' Clerks).


With each passing year I feel that cinema definitely died on March 7, 1999.

Johann
01-11-2016, 02:49 PM
Ennio Morricone did the score for this one- Awesome. Quentin must be over the moon to get him! (And it won a Golden Globe)

Why does that trailer for The Hateful 8 suck? I mean cripes, there is nothing in that trailer (besides Samuel L. Jackson's flashy wardrobe) that indicates that this movie Rocks. I guess trailers for QT are moot? His name should get your ass into a theatre, right? lol

Chris Knipp
01-13-2016, 09:32 AM
It's best not to watch trailers. So I'm not going to enter into this discussion. But I remember Kubrick and the SHINING one, and how P.T. Anderson carefully crafted his MAGNOLIA trailers. If QT is ignoring them, that's not ideal.

Johann
01-13-2016, 10:35 AM
Yes, trailers shouldn't really have much weight placed on them.
The Hateful 8 trailer is nothing more than "New Tarantino movie! Get it now! While it's Hot!". When by comparison, the trailer for KILL BILL (vol. 1) was a Masterpiece, a premium example of how to sell your movie, how to get butts into seats. I hesitate to say Quentin was slacking, because he is a Saviour of cinema, but his trailers should destroy all comers.
When Zack Snyder is kicking your ass...you should adjust. "300" was a gigantic hit in part because the trailer was so fuckin' badass.

I'll be seeing The Hateful 8 this weekend.
The trailer for The Shining is Legendary, probably the best trailer ever made.
That's a good topic for discussion: What is the best trailer you've ever seen? And why?

Chris Knipp
01-13-2016, 01:00 PM
I know sometimes (Kubrick, PT Anderson, QT) trailers have been great, very rarely though. He must not have bothered this time. Too bad, but I respect those who prefer to enter a screening completely cold, not even really knowing what a film is about, exactly, in order to provide an unbiased assessment. I don't achieve that often or even seek to, but I value the purity of the idea.

Chris Knipp
01-13-2016, 01:24 PM
Trailers used to be relatively cool or at least restrained way back, in the Fifties or Sixties or maybe Seventies, when they didn't provide a resume of the entire film. Less is more in this category. The one I think of is Kubrick's for THE SHINING showing only the elevator filling with blood.

http://www.theawl.com/2010/08/is-the-trailer-for-the-shining-the-actual-film

When I looked this up I found another trailer that, horribly, summarizes the entire plot and ruins it. I don't recall that one actually being used, however. I do remember seeing the elevator/blood one.

Johann
01-13-2016, 01:25 PM
Right on.
Knowing nothing going in can be a revelation- I've experienced that many times. When I said 95% of the movies out there aren't worth my time, what I'm referring to is Kubrick's mantra: "In a way, everything has already been done in cinema. Our job is to do it BETTER", and no one is doing it better.

Case in point: Steven Spielberg. That man knows how to make a movie on Kubrick's level (and has all the tools at his disposal to do it) and he refuses. He continues to make "audience" movies. He was an auteur in the 70's, with Friedkin, Coppola & even Lucas- auteur of blockbusters. I think he's lost his "auteur" status, and lost it when he made "Hook". Many may disagree, but that's what I feel.

Lincoln was well-made- I really liked it. But how cinematic was it? Not much. War Horse- same thing. Bridge of Spies- who gives a shit? Spielberg is frustrating. He towers in Hollywood, but a director like Roman Polanski or Werner Herzog leave him in the dust. There's no "ecstatic truth" to be seen in any recent Spielberg pictures. He can do what he wants, he's earned it, but if I miss a Spielberg I lose ZERO SLEEP.

Johann
01-13-2016, 01:46 PM
I read in a book on Kubrick that directors like Spielberg, Lucas and Coppola venerate Kubrick because of one thing:
Kubrick's films are RISKIER.

George Lucas said he hoped to one day have the fortitude to do what Stanley did. You've had it since you were a multi-millionaire George! Stanley himself said he wished he could make the kind of money Star Wars did while maintaining his reputation for social responsibility. Did you hear that George? You got 4 billion bucks. Why the flying fuck aren't you working on something so Massively Awesome that it destroys all films that ever came before it?

YOU HAVE THE POWER.....

Chris Knipp
01-13-2016, 03:53 PM
This is true and you are right, and this is why you should be out watching the new ones and reporting on them and acting as a conscience.

Chris Knipp
01-13-2016, 04:46 PM
Here is the MAGNOLIA trailer I think P.T. Anderson carefully crafted himself, which I remember from the time as seeming to show you everything but really showing you nothing, teasing you, exciting you, and suggesting something very cool was on the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnamcFv_N9Q

And here is the short one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ahUItMF3oE

Johann
01-14-2016, 11:51 AM
That Magnolia trailer is something else, isn't it? Bravo PT Anderson!

You're right about me seeing more new movies. My "recalcitrance" is a hindrance and must be ditched. :)

Chris Knipp
01-14-2016, 01:10 PM
Fingers crossed that there will be a change of heart and you'll have more reports in new stuff.

Johann
01-14-2016, 03:06 PM
I feel guilty now. Thanks. :) I'm sure there are relavatory movies being made. You gotta go to the theatre or you will never know. Just like you won't win the lottery if you never buy a ticket....


I wish I could see The Hateful 8 in the proper format, but I can't make a trip to Montreal just now.
The theatre closest to me (Landsdowne) only has a regular screening- in the VIP lounge- at $20 a ticket (?!) I hate paying more unless it's an IMAX show...

Chris Knipp
01-14-2016, 05:47 PM
Exactly. It's a lottery but you have to buy a ticket once in a while.

It's also in 70mm in Toronto and Vancouver. But don't worry about it. It's the same film.

Johann
01-17-2016, 05:09 PM
Just saw the movie. I liked it. Not as much as other QT flicks, but this one definitely has his stamp all over it.
The tension builds up pretty fierce...
The "N" word was definitely used way too much- I'm puzzled as to why he uses it so much- its not necessary Quentin!


Violent as all Holy Hell, this one. (With a fantastic music score!)

Chris Knipp
01-17-2016, 08:36 PM
I hope you had a big screen and 70mm? I got 70mm but wish it had been a bigger screen. The aspect ratio is amazing, but such a ratio requires a very large screen to get the images up close. I loved the score. Those who say its mediocre Morricone I can't understand. Watching multiple Q&A's featuring the cast shows how much they love working with Tarantino. I was impressed by how honored Jennifer Jason Leigh was to be chosen and that Bruce Dern, who I calculate has been in movies for 55 years, said this was the most fun he'd ever had on a film set. I agree he uses the N word even more this time and that the excessive use of it is inexplicable. Is that one reason he gets so few awards and nominations?

Johann
01-18-2016, 10:12 AM
No, I didn't get to see it in 70mm- that would've been sweet. I saw it in the VIP theatre. I had a couple beers- the VIP theatre lets you drink alcohol.
The score was worth the price of admission. Seriously. I'm buying the soundtrack- I already have 4 of QT's soundtracks, might as well add another. "mediocre Morricone?" Stanley Kubrick used to play Morricone music on his sets to get everybody "in a mood"- and another Kubrick connection here is Jennifer Jason Leigh- she was cast in Eyes Wide Shut as Marion, but there were problems somewhere...as with Harvey Keitel. Jennifer goes through a bit of hell, here, no? LOL

It would be a Joy working with Quentin I think. He lives and breathes movies. He's conscious of his own filmography and that of many, many others. I love that he sees the merits of guys like Bruce Dern and Kurt Russell. (But I heard Bruce Dern is in "Chateau Bow-Wow" (the doghouse) with Quentin, over his agent leaking the script...)


Thumbs up from me on The Hateful 8. Just be warned...blood and racial slurs abound...

Chris Knipp
01-18-2016, 10:57 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed the venue, too bad not 70mm though. Nice you have the QT sound track collection.

Yeah, JJL takes a beating, but she loved working on it and with Kurt Russell. I see from this article (http://deadline.com/2014/01/quentin-tarantino-hateful-eight-leak-novel-669066/) maybe Bruce Dern's agent IS a prime suspect, but it's not certain -- an early draft; but QT almost gave up the whole project because he felt so betrayed, it says.

I think QT creates a club atmosphere on set. Being on his team feels like an honor. You are selected for you, you are respected. Also there are no electronic devices permitted on set. That means people relate to each other. They're not texting or on the internet. They like that. But it's also hard work. And he chilled the set interior so it was cold all the time to duplicate the fiction of the story. They were freezing all the time.

We should note using 70mm is a dramatic gesture in defense of FILM. QT says "we ceded too much to the barbarians" in letting Hollywood make digital dominant. There is still a good dozen of the finest US directors who are adamant defenders of FILM. Having turned to digital myself in still photography finally the past five years I am personally aware film has beauties digital lacks -- but digital has amazing conveniences.

Johann
01-18-2016, 11:09 AM
Yes, to have the presence of mind to shoot on film, with old cameras, that is cinephilia. That's Pure, that's to be respected, admired. There's more craft involved when you shoot on film, especially with your lighting. You have to take more time to get it right, and you have to send that shit to the lab.
PT Anderson is another man who is honoring tradition with 70 mm. These guys are keeping cinema alive.
(Too bad you can count 'em all on one hand...)

"We ceded too much to the barbarians"- I love that. Everything is digital these days- most "tentpole" movies are slapped with 3-D.
Sam Peckinpah would hate movies today. Absolutely hate them.

Chris Knipp
01-18-2016, 11:30 AM
Here are some important directors who use film rather than digital. See here where they are on film talking about it: 8 Directors Who Still Use Film Stock, Instead of Digital Photography (https://www.phactual.com/8-directors-who-still-use-film-stock-instead-of-digital-photography/). It takes more than one hand.


Judd Apatow
Quentin Tarantino
Steven Spielberg
James Gray
Wes Anderson
Paul Thomas Anderson
Alex Ross Perry
Christopher Nolan
Ryan Johnson

Chris Knipp
03-20-2022, 12:41 PM
Revisiting QT in Charlie Rose's JACKIE BROWN moment interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ctm7AnFIOw) (1997) led me to my HATEFUL EIGHT review and find this story (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/apr/27/quentin-tarantino-hateful-eight-netflix-miniseries)about its 2019 re-formatting for Netfilx in 4 episodes as a mini-series. I also added where I saw THE HATEFUL EIGHT - in 70mm at 187mins. with the Ennio Morricone overture and the intermission break: the Village East. I can't confirm this but I think it was first shown there and I saw it Dec. 24th in the evening.

This was not as good a movie as ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD (http://www.filmleaf.net/showthread.php?4674-ONCE-UPON-A-TIME-IN-HOLLYWOOD-(Quentin-Tarantino-2019)&p=37792#post37792), but the circumstances of that special presentation were more memorable. I can barely remember where I saw the recent film.

I rewatched JACKIE BROWN, the movie with witch QT by his own declaration "became a professional." It is also one where the use of the N-word, in the scenes between Ordell Robbie (Samuel L. Jackson) and Beaumont Livingston (Chris Tucker), was still spot-on and hilarious and had not started to feel forced and unfunny. This was not a movie that I warmed to originally, and I never reviewed it. The marriage of QT and Elmore Leonard isn't totally successful. Tarantino's baroque style gets in the way of Leonard's plot twists. But those Ordell-Beaumont dialogues and the presence of Pam Grier and Robert Forster make the movie special.