The 25th Hour

[miseenscene]

Has anyone else seen this pic yet? I hadn't intended to, but a Barry Pepper fan suggested it to me and we saw it this weekend. Neither of us were sure of what to make of it in the end -- it's angular, insular and not altogether engaging, and relies more heavily on film school tricks than I might have expected from Spike Lee. However, I haven't seen many of his films, so this may be the norm.

Good acting from all involved, although none of them are asked to do much. Then again, maybe that's the sign of good acting -- to take underwritten supporting characters, or chliche-riddled characters, and make them seem more than one-dimensional. Regardless, the only character I "felt" anything for was Edward Norton's, who is also the only one I get the feeling we're supposed to care about. Everyone else exists as a placeholder, so we can have someone else's story to watch while giving Norton time to travel from point A to point B.

It's a love letter to America, and New York in particular, while also exposing the hypocrisy and drawbacks of living in America's greatest city. Yet if I was supposed to come away with a reverential love of either NYC or America, I didn't. If I was supposed to realize I shouldn't waste the few opportunities I encounter in life, I did, but any Afterschool Special could have taught me that. If I just saw a Spike Lee film with a deep, powerful message with Academy Award hopes... well, maybe I have different ideas of what "deep, powerful" and "Academy Award hopes" mean.

[Johann]

Spike Lee and Ed Norton. A gritty script.

Sounds like another amazing film from a short black guy with BALLS. I love Spike. He's had a lot of indifference aimed at him over the years, but when he's gone, we will miss him. Look at his filmography- it's pretty damn impressive. When will HE get some respect? Brother can BLOW. :) :) :)

[oscar jubis]

I was perusing old threads and came upon this one. Spike Lee's 25th Hour is really good, and I must rematch soon to appreciate the nuances and regret in Ed Norton's performance and the cinematic qualities characteristics of the director. Is 25th Hour among the best films of the 2000s? Certainly worth consideration.

[Chris Knipp]

And it has the late Philip Seymour Hoffman. It's pretty good, for sure. Not great though. His last good feature? Spike's performance as a serious filmmaker has declined since the early 2000's.

[Johann]

You're absolutely right, Oscar.

Spike Lee is actually more about "nuance" than people think.
"True" film lovers appreciate Spike. The others have "agendas"............(of some type).
A true film lover can see what Spike does/did.

[oscar jubis]

A true film lover can see what Spike does/did.
Yes, and I think his career has not "declined since the early 2000s". Inside Man and When the Levees Broke were released in 2006 to great acclaim, so was the recent Chi-Rak (which Chris didn't like at all) and I think there is ample filmmaking love and chops on display in the remake of Oldboy and a couple of films of his I might call "interesting failures". I remember that you also liked Tarantino, although not as much as Kubrick (who is in the pantheon period.) My sensibilities and Tarantino's are partly in direct conflict but I found enough things in his movies to interest me or engage me until The Hateful 8. I cannot seem to be able to will myself to finish it, to be honest. That's a first as far as me and Mr. Tarantino. I've been stating my love for Jackie Brown since this forum opened in 2002.

[Chris Knipp]

I think I already strenuously disagreed with you on Chi-Rak, a disastrous film, overlong and off key. I might make an exception with When the Levees Broke, which is no doubt admirable, but that's not a continuation of his creative work. Inside Man was entertaining, a clever puzzle film with suspense and a surprise ending, but it is not a Spike Lee film at all. He did not write it; Russell Gewirtz did. It's obvious if you look at Spoke's CV in recent years, he's been doing lots of other things. There is only so much time an artist has, and he has turned his attention to different activities besides making Spike Lee films.

[Johann]

Nice to be back chatting with you guys.

I haven't seen the Oldboy remake, Chi-Rak or Inside Man. There's a few other Spike Lee joints I haven't seen.
I just love that he's a true director, a true filmmaker. His stories may be hit and miss, but he really goes for it.
When the Levees Broke is Incredible and should be shown in schools to me. It's so amazing. He got to the heart of what happened in New Orleans, like a photo-journalist. He documented real-time HISTORY there.

Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers. He's very intense, he takes no prisoners, and he seems to be one of a select few who seem to know what a movie should be. He's also profane, he's got lot of over-the-top action set-ups & dialogue, and his movies are of the type that can be disturbing. Very visceral, he's got his style, which was achieved in part with his editor Sally.
The Hateful 8 is my least-favorite of all his movies. I still get excited to see a new Tarantino movie, same with Jim Jarmusch- I'll see anything that man makes. Paterson was fantastic.

[Chris Knipp]

Nice to have you back Johann, hope you check out my recent Rendez-Vous with French Cinema and New Directors/New Films threads which have been my work of the past three + weeks. Spike Lee is a distinctive voice in American film. When the Levees Broke is his best recent work and very important, no doubt about it. But in late years he has had his hand in many pies, and has done many things that were not in a recognizable style. The Oldboy remake is another example. I couldn't see the point of it, or even sit through it. This is unlike Tarantino or Jarmusch, who may do some movies less successful than others, but all are all in the recognizable style and couldn't be by anybody else.

I agree with you on Hateful Eight and Paterson. Hateful Eight at least makes more sense to me after just last week seeing the new restoration of Sergio Corbucci's The Great Silence, which is clearly the major source of Hateful Eight and however repugnant in its violence, bold and clear in its conception.

Lee's Oldboy is in a class with Gus Van Sant's frame-by-frame remake of Psycho - completely senseless. A distinctive artist doesn't need to do a slavish copy of another artist's work. But Van Sant also has been very uneven at times and hi his recent Sea of Treess is reportedly a total turkey. Metacritic rating: 23%, in the red zone. However others didn't dislike Chi-rak as much as I did, though I'm not alone.

[oscar jubis]

Nice to be back chatting with you guys.

I haven't seen the Oldboy remake, Chi-Rak or Inside Man. There's a few other Spike Lee joints I haven't seen.
I just love that he's a true director, a true filmmaker. His stories may be hit and miss, but he really goes for it.
When the Levees Broke is Incredible and should be shown in schools to me. It's so amazing. He got to the heart of what happened in New Orleans, like a photo-journalist. He documented real-time HISTORY there.

Tarantino is one of my favorite filmmakers. He's very intense, he takes no prisoners, and he seems to be one of a select few who seem to know what a movie should be. He's also profane, he's got lot of over-the-top action set-ups & dialogue, and his movies are of the type that can be disturbing. Very visceral, he's got his style, which was achieved in part with his editor Sally.
The Hateful 8 is my least-favorite of all his movies. I still get excited to see a new Tarantino movie, same with Jim Jarmusch- I'll see anything that man makes. Paterson was fantastic.

Thank you for the reply and your learned comments. More often than not, the profanity in Tarantino's films has lost its appeal for me; less so the action set-pieces, and I still crave the clever emplotment. There is increasingly less evidence of it though, in the recent films. The Hateful 8 may merit to be called a "chamber piece".

So you have missed a few Spike Lee joints. I have missed many films from good directors in the past five years or perhaps more. At least half the films I watch are films I have watched before (but wish to know in more detail, or I am showing it to college students). There are several scenes from classic Hollywood I can quote shot-by-shot like people learn song lyrics. There are so many masterpieces in cinema one can always learn from. I remember when I was in college circa 1980 and film professors used mostly patchy, damaged 16mm prints of silent and classic films, whereas nowadays every single silent film directed by Fritz Lang is available on Bluray.

I also watch films that are artistic and have no commercial intent. I am taking advantage of the opportunity to mention my deep admiration for the work of three filmmakers in particular: Nina Menkes, Bill Morrison, and Peter Forgacs. I think all three of them teach, which is typical of filmmakers who work in the experimental and avant-garde ghettoes. Morrison and Forgacs (Hungarian) both use existing footage as their raw matter. Morrison uses damaged or decaying film, mostly from professional, commercial films but not exclusively. Forgacs uses Hungarian home movies (amateur) shot from the 1930s to the 1960s. Menkes is more difficult to classify and closer to narrative film than the other two although more bizarre in some of her conceits.

[oscar jubis]

Metacritic compiled 36 reviews of Chi-Rak and categorized them as 30 positive, 6 mixed, and ZERO negative reviews.
I guess I should say "you're right", in that "others didn't dislike Chi-Rak as much as you did".

[Johann]

The Hateful 8 may merit to be called a "chamber piece".
I also watch films that are artistic and have no commercial intent.

Agreed.
"Chamber piece" is a perfect description of THE HATEFUL 8. Well said Oscar.
I agree that the profanity in Tarantino begs explanation.
We all agree on his cinema acumen.
Is the profanity still required to drive home the cinema?
You have been issued a Challenge, Mr. Quentin Tarantino...Can you deliver improv gold? Like Carol Burnett? Like the past?
Then pack it in...

[Johann]

Nice to have you back Johann, hope you check out my recent Rendez-Vous with French Cinema and New Directors/New Films threads which have been my work of the past three + weeks.
Thanks Chris.
I read pretty much all of your reviews. I don't post much, but I lurk. lol

[Chris Knipp]

Thanks, Johann, for, er, "lurking" around my R-V and ND/NF reviews.
To do these I've been in NYC, and yesterday I had breakfast with Peter, who lives there, and we were wondering at how our little band has stayed together all these years, you, me, Tabuno, Cinemabon, and Oscar, all still present. He remarked that is rare in the Internet world. Others have come and gone of course, but it's been just us for quite a while. It is miraculous to have this loyalty and continuity and, of course, good feeling and mutual support.

We talked about the remarkable and beautiful Isle of Dogs, which I'd just seen over the weekend, my Easter present to myself, so to speak, and Peter also reminded me, I'd forgotten, that he grew up with Wes Anderson in Houston, they lived on the same street, so they go way back. He promised to go and see Isle of Dogs, with my recommendation - to you all too - and especially because, you know, Peter's relationship with Japanese and Japan is profound. I wish I could have seen it with him! But he's pretty busy. Needless to say, so is Wes, so attempts to see him when he's in NYC are touch-and-go, from what he said.

[Johann]

Glad Peter is doing well. He's like the Phantom of the Opera...LOL

Your reviews are in a class by themselves Chris. We all know it.
And yes it's amazing that we have been online for almost 20 years.
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