Jingoism - The war on terror?

[cinemabon]

What is patriotism? Is it love of country, the flag, our president? Is it faith in the ideals of Jefferson or the Bill of Rights? Where does the "common man" fall into this display of heroism in the face of the enemy. Almost sounds like the simplistic approach of a John Wayne movie, emotionally overwrought but effective.

I believe those questions will come into play in the minds of normal everyday walk-of-life moviegoers more often over the next few weeks as Oliver Stone takes center stage with his dramatic story, "World Trade Center."

Is it about 9/11? Or is it a private story that just happens to take place on that day?

Even before the film has opened, it has created the largest posting in IMDB's short history. Critics are lining up early to sing its praises. Charlie Rose clearly endorsed the film last night. I know for a fact that many on this sight love Stone... perhaps love is a bit strong... admire.

I must remove my feelings from this debate. I criticized this film on another site and a reader attacked me by putting my name and address on the subject heading, then inviting others to attack me, a brutal and vicious tactic that worked. I withdrew not only every posting I've ever made over the past six years, but my membership. So I intend to stay out of the fray, and away from the theater. One replay of reality was enough for me.

[oscar jubis]

I hope your posting about it here indicates you feel protected from vicious, personal attacks at this site, where respectful debate is the norm. Rather than saying you criticized World Trade Center at another site, it seems to me you criticized the idea or concept of the film. I do object to the manipulation of the public's sense of pride-for-country on the part of government elites and the exaltation of acts of heroism for the purpose of warmongering. Yet I believe that certain types and displays of patriotism and heroism can be noble and worth celebrating. Whether or not World Trade Center is a film I can embrace remains to be seen. Even though you will stay away from the theatre showing it, I wish you would enter and thus enrich the discussion the film will surely generate here.

[cinemabon]

Naturally, I will observe... I couldn't have greater respect and admiration for a group of people I've never met, but don't need to meet in order to know how much I appreciate their contribution to the ongoing dialogue.

Thanks as always for your generosity of spirit and warm regards... however at this point, I think I'll go rent a Mel Gibson film the day WTC premieres (that's how low I feel!)

"I hear they're doing a new Star Trek film... yeah, Star Trek X. It takes place 500 years in the future... the same it will take the Jewish people of the world to forgive Mel Gibson!" Jay Leno on Tonight Show 8-4-06

[oscar jubis]

Well, I watched the film. It's well-made and effective. It's also too narrowly focused on two American guys' feel-good story to give justice to the complexity and implications of the events of 9/11/01. Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote an excellent review that puts forth many valid points better than I ever could: http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/moviereviews/060811/

[Chris Knipp]

What is patriotism? Eithteenth-century English man of letters Samuel Johnson famously defined it as "the last refuge of the scoundrel." I have often thought that Oliver Stone was an opportunist, one who profits too soon from controversial topics. I haven't yet seen 9/11, but my feeling is that it's too soon to make a film about it and also that it's too complex an event in itself to cover in a film, as well as an event that we already know so much about from every conceivable angle, it's hard to see how a film version would be anyting other than a post card, a token. It might be interesting, because it would be a stretch of our imaginations, but perhaps too controversial and again obvious, something we know already too much about, to make a film depicting the lives of the men who hijacked the planes and the days and hours leading up to that (that would be something like Bellocchio's Good Morning, Night/Buon giorno, notte). Of course what happened on the most notable plane has already been made into a movie. i didn't go to see it, but I read that it was well done. Will check out Rosenbaum's review.

[Chris Knipp]

In other words, I'm at the opposite extreme from the jingoistic reviewer Kathryn Jean Lopez in the National Review cited in Rosenbaum's review that favored 9/11 over United 93 because she didn't want to know about "them," only about "us": I want particularly to know about "them." I already know about "us." Until we know about "them", it's going to always be "us" versus "them," and the cycle will never be broken.

Devastating review by Rosenbaum, by the way.