Personal 2004 Best Lists [Archive] - FilmLeaf

Chris Knipp

01-17-2005, 02:34 PM

These are on my website (for updates): http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/viewtopic.php?t=388.

These are alphabetical within categories. As always, the most interesting part is how one justifies individual awards and exclusions; most of my main choices I've reviewed -- see my website -- and those not yet reviewed, I will write about shortly.

Please feel free to post your own corrections, additions, and lists!

CHRIS KNIPP'S 2004 MOVIE BEST LISTS

TEN BEST U.S.

THE AVIATOR (MARTIN SCORSESE)
BEFORE SUNSET (RICHARD LINKLATER)
COLLATERAL (MICHAEL MANN)
ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND (MICHEL GONDRY)
KILL BILL: VOL. 2 (QUENTIN TARANTINO)
THE LIFE AQUATIC WITH STEVE ZISSOU (WES ANDERSON)
MILLION DOLLAR BABY (CLINT EASTWOOD)
NAPOLEON DYNAMITE (JARED HESS)
SIDEWAYS (ALEXANDER PAYNE)
UNDERTOW (DAVID GORDON GREEN)

TEN BEST FOREIGN

ADIEU (ARNAUD DE PALLIÈRES)
THE DREAMERS (BERNARDO BERTOLUCCI)
FATHER AND SON (OTETS Y SIN, ANDREI SOKOROV)
GOODBYE LENIN (DANIEL BRÜHL)
HEAD ON (FATIH AKIM)
HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS (SHI MIAN MAI FU, ZHANG YIMOU, 2004)
THE HOUSE KEYS (LE CHIAVI DI CASA, GIANNI AMELIO)
THE RETURN (VOZVRASCHENIE, ANDREI SVYAGINTSEV)
STRAYED (ÉGARÉS, ANDRÉ TÉCHINÉ)
VERA DRAKE (MIKE LEIGH)

BEST ANIMATIONS

THE INCREDIBLES (BRAD BIRD/PIXAR)

BEST DOCUMENTARIES

BORN INTO BROTHELS (DANA BRISKI)
BUKOWSKI: BORN INTO THIS (JOHN DULLAGHAN)
CONTROL ROOM (JEHANE NUJAIM)
THE CORPORATION (JENNIFER ABBOTT)
FAHRENHEIT 9/11 (MICHAEL MOORE)
OUTFOXED: RUPERT MURDOCH'S WAR ON JOURNALISM (ROBERT GREENWALD)
IN THE REALMS OF THE UNREAL (JESSICA YU)
RIDING GIANTS (STACY PERALTA)
TARNATION (JONATHAN CAOUETTE)
TOUCHING THE VOID (KEVIN MCDONALD)

SHORTLISTED, ALL CATEGORIES

FEAR AND TREMBLING (STUPEUR ET TREMBLEMENTS, ALAIN CORNEAU)
FINDING NEVERLAND (MARC FOSTER)
HiJACKING CATASTROPHE (JEREMY EARP, SUT JHALLY)
KINSEY (BILL CONDON)
MONSIEUR IBRAHIM ET LES FLEURS DU CORAN (DANIEL DUPEYRON)
MOOLAADÉ (OUSMANE SEMBENE)
THE MOTHER (ROGER MITCHELL)
PRIMER (SHANE CARRUTH)
THE TIME OF THE WOLF (LE TEMPS DU LOUP, MICHAEL HANAKE)
THE WOODSMAN (NICOLE KASSELL)

IN A CLASS APART

RIPLEY'S GAME (LILIANA CAVANI) -- STRAIGHT TO VIDEO IN U.S.
BROWN BUNNY (VINCENT GALLO) --SUCCÈS DE SCANDALE
KEN PARK (LARRY CLARK) -- NO U.S. DISTRIBUTION. TOO SEXY
THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT (ERIC BRESS, J. MACKYE GRUBER) ASHTON ACTS
THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS (LA BATTAGLIA DI ALGERI, GILLO PONTECORVO, 1965) -- A CLASSIC REISSUED

YEAR'S MOST OVERRATED

DOGVILLE (LARS VON TRIER)
PASSION OF THE CHRIST (MEL GIBSON)
SPRING, SUMMER, AUTUMN, WINTER....AND SPRING (KI-DUK KIM)

MOST OVEREXPOSED ACTORS

JUDE LAW
BEN STILLER

WISH I'D SEEN

INNOCENCE (LUCILE HADZIHALILOVIC)
CAFE LUMIERE (KÔHI JÎKÔ, HOU HSIAU-HSIEN)
GOODBYE, DRAGON INN (BU SAN, TSAI MING-LIANG)
TROPICAL MALADY (SUD PRALAD, APICHATPONG WEERASETHAKUL)
PALINDROMES (TODD SOLONDZ)
TRIPLE AGENT (ERIC ROHMER)
THE BIG RED ONE (SAMUEL FULLER) -- RECUT VERSION

oscar jubis

01-19-2005, 12:30 AM

Thanks Chris. Hope others follow up. As you know, I'm still catching up with 2004 releases but won't wait until the end of February (as I did last year) to post my list. Some info on titles that may be unfamiliar to others.

*Head On will be considered a 2005 release in the US (scheduled date: Jan. 21st in NYC). Please tell us about it.

*In the Realms of the Unreal and Born into Brothels were released in NYC (and maybe a few other big markets) in December 2004. Hope I get to watch them soon. Members who live in small markets may have to wait for the dvd.

*Innocence, Adieu, Cafe Lumiere and Triple Agent have no US distributor, but the latter is already available on import dvd. Chris, tell us a little bit about Adieu

*Tropical Malady and The House Keys will be released in the USA sometime in 2005. T.M. is available on import dvd.

*Palindromes is scheduled for release on 4/13/05.

Chris Knipp

01-19-2005, 11:40 AM

I am working toward writing and posting reviews of all the films on my Best Lists, which will include Head On, In the Realms of the Unreal and Born into Brothels. And I will do my best to see the others that you mention that are on my "Wish I'd seen" list via dvd.

I have reviewed Adieu on my website. ("A passionate meditation on hospitality, death, injustice") I will post it here in a bit. http://www.chrisknipp.com/writing/viewtopic.php?t=362.

hengcs

01-19-2005, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by oscar jubis
*Head On will be considered a 2005 release in the US (scheduled date: Jan. 21st in NYC). Please tell us about it.

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
I am working toward writing and posting reviews of all the films on my Best Lists, which will include Head On

Hi,
my 1 cent worth on "Head On" (re-edited)
http://www.filmwurld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1105

Anyway, in order to avoid reading the same content twice (because some of you are members here and in foreign films forum), I have decided that I shall post
-- Hollywood and independent films HERE ... ;)
-- Non American films in http://www.foreignfilms.com

I will post "3 Iron" (aka Binjip) (Korea) there in a few minutes' time!
http://p219.ezboard.com/fforeignfilmsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=35.topic

Happy reading ...
;)

tabuno

01-26-2005, 01:40 AM

With the almost bewildering subjective judgments of best films, it's nice to see a list that at least resembles some of my own choices.

THE AVIATOR (I had 5th)
BEFORE SUNSET (have not seen)
COLLATERAL (I had 10th)
ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND (I had 4th)
KILL BILL: VOL. 2 (I had 3rd)
THE LIFE AQUATIC WITH STEVE ZISSOU (have not seen)
MILLION DOLLAR BABY (have not seen)
NAPOLEON DYNAMITE (didn't fall into my top 20)
SIDEWAYS (have not seen)
UNDERTOW (have not seen)

I am surprised to see that Dogville didn't get any mention or Touching The Void. I also enjoyed Wicker Park as one of my top ten films of the year along with The Incredibles and Spartan.

Chris Knipp

01-26-2005, 01:32 PM

I did mention Dogville and Touching the Void, Dogville as one of the "most overrated" and Touching as one of the best documentaries. I realize Dogville is a strong film or I wouldn't have called it "most" anything. I preferred The Five Obstructions. As for Spartan and Wicker Park, you're way in left field for most of us on those. Spartan was pointless diddling by Mamet and Wicker a flabby adaptation of a French film. I also listed The Incredibles, but my animations list is short to say the least. I just don't seek them out to see. In particular obviously I should have seen the Japanese ones.

Chris Knipp

01-26-2005, 03:35 PM

Here are some other titles not on my 2004 lists, that I did see, and which either I or others liked--or hated--enough to be worth talking about. The sequence is alphabetical, so things I liked, but not quite enough, alternate with things others loved that left me cold.

Choses Secrètes (Secret Things). I thought this was a suave French excuse for soft core porn at first, but later I read discussions of it that made it sound far more thoughtful than I'd realized.

Clean. I found Olivier Assayas' new film uninvolving, despite the charisma of Maggie Cheung and the strong presence of Nick Nolte. Assayas' fans love it even before they see it, and the European critics have been generous in their praise.

Similarly with the even colder and less engaging 5 x 2 (Cinq fois deux, Five Times Two) François Ozon's latest film also was greeted as brilliant. Its trendy use of reverse chronology fails to conceal its lack of depth.

Closer, Mike Nichols' strategic exploitation of A-Listers, I've written about already.

Crimson Gold is a peculiar, rather haunting ramble with a slow, overweight Teheran pizza delivery guy who turns to violence. If it were better executed, it would be great. I may have to reconsider this one, but the minute-by-minute texture of this film failed to engage me at any point.

The Door in the Floor has been listed by some as a brilliant achievement, and Jeff Bridges does a fine job of impersonating an offensive, self-indulgent philanderer, but the result has no emotional resonance.

I ♥ Huckabees delights philosophy buffs and may enjoy delayed minor cult status. It looks more to me like David O. Russell, who achieved such a high level of wit and relevance in Three Kings, has lost all touch with the general public, without achieving a style.

Japanese Story is an involving Australian film about a tragedy in the outback and a brief love affair that turns painful; but there were many stronger candidates.

Speaking of candidates, the Manchurian Candidate remake by Jonathan Demme seemed pointless to me, as remakes so often do. Forget this one and go back and see the 1962 John Frankenheimer original.

Maria Full of Grace is on some ten best lists and it was destined to be. A remarkable first film with a lovely star, and deserving of praise. Its process-story of drug running seemed unoriginal to me, and the dice seemed so loaded it turned me off.

Metallica:Some Kind of Monster surprised me by making it to ten-best lists. Why? Those who regard it so highly must like group thearapy and self-absorbed rock stars more than I do, and they also may have missed the more interesting three-hour documentary about Metallica that came out a few years ago.

The Mororcycle Diaries is charming and irresistible and must have been a great experience for new international A-lister Garcia Bernál as well as another feather in his cap, but when you come right down to it not much happens and it's too glossy a picture of a complex revolutionary; it's one of those easy foreign films that get long runs and leave sweet memories without making much of an artistic mark.

The Mudge Boy was a miserable failure to some, but was a quirky gay coming of age movie that showed the young Emile Hirsch's skills as never before.

Notre Musique is accessible late Godard, and the old master made ten-best lists for it. Man's addiction to war is an important topic. For me, the film failed to engage.

Osama is another Iranian tale of brutality and repression like The Circle and gets high points from those whose buttons are pushed by it.

The Saddest Music in the World is the year's best for those who like their art house films outré; like watching paint dry -- fuzzy black and white paint, that is.

A Very Long Engagement was groomed and financed as the French-import flick lite of the US movie year and it's succeeding. But it's not lite, it's just overproduced.

The Weeping Camel--who thought camels could be cuddly and sad? Or that a documentary could feel so fake and manipulative? Yet the film has many champions.

Young Adam is a unique little Scottish film from a minor cult novel of the Fifties, and has a great cast headed by Tilda Swinton and Ewan McGregor. Bad timing I guess: I'd really forgotten it, and a lot of other good stuff came along afterward. I'd like to see it again, though.

Harry and Kuman Go to White Castle is one I don't think I have to apologize to any film buffs for not listing; I was almost crucified for even talking about it. And yet it made more than one best list as the Listology site shows: http://www.listology.com/content_show.cfm/content_id.15150

SinjinSB

01-26-2005, 03:47 PM

The Weeping Camel--who thought camels could be cuddly and sad? Or that a documentary could feel so fake and manipulative? Yet the film has many champions.

I agree, after seeing it nominated, I watched it last night. While I didn't hate it, it definitely wasn't anything special and I saw other documentaries more worthy of nomination. Probably my favorite documentary of the year was Stacey Peralta's Riding Giants. Then again, I am a sucker for good surf docs.

oscar jubis

01-26-2005, 04:47 PM

5x2 and Clean will get proper US releases in June and September 2005, respectively.

Complete agreement on Door in the Floor, Japanese Story, Metallica, Young Adam, Manchurian, Very Long Engagement.

Osama is not as complex and ambitious as The Circle, but it's compact, stirring, well-made.

Crimson Gold is a masterpiece and I liked Saddest Music in the World a lot. The other Guy maddin 2004 release, Cowards Bend the Knee, has not opened here.

Looks like I'm going to have to post a list before watching Moolade and Notre Musique, two 2004 films from directors I greatly admire that I'm still waiting for.

I watched Huckabees and I still don't know how I feel about it. Could be a dud or a masterpiece. I know I like the themes and one or two perfs.

Chris Knipp

01-26-2005, 04:59 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, Oscar. I hope there'll be more. On Huckabees, I'd say if you're still waiting to know what you feel about it, either it's a dud or you don't adhere to the notion that a movie must achieve some kind of gut reaction to be worth remembering and talking about, and I don't think that's you.

arsaib4

01-26-2005, 05:34 PM

Chris, you certainly need to pay a visit to east-Asian cinema. Not much going on in your list(s) from there except the two mainstream Yimou films. I know now that you're gonna see Springtime in a Small Town; also check out Twilight Samurai for starters.

Son frère, I hope people see this film before they make their list. As of now two people love it: me and Armond White.

Chris Knipp

01-26-2005, 06:10 PM

In my lists I try to have a mix of things a lot of people can see and those only a few can or will see.

I will watch what I can get . I'm not near a good rental store any more.I didn't know much about several Chinese directors till you and Oscar mentioned them -- and I still don't, because their movies are not easily accessible and I spend most of my viewing time in theaters these days; but it's not like I never see any Asian films, and I have seen Twilight Samurai.

Son frère, Patrice Chereau: I admire this director, famous in Europe, I understand, as a designer of opera productions. L'Homme blessé was one of the most powerful films of the Eighties, with a stunning first performance by the risk-taking actor Jean-Hugues Anglade; La reine Margot is gorgeous, also with Anglade. Intimacy was talked about, but not widely shown in the US; I have not seen it. What is or was the US distribution of the 2003 French release Son frère? It seems to have done well critically in France http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=47796.html. Armond White is nuts, but I do check out what he says when I get the opportunity. I doubt that you and he are its sole admirers.

The listmaking time is becoming overdue. I can add Son frère to my "Wish I'd Seen" list. But one has to stop adding to that too, and just move on to 2005 and catch up when one can. One simply cannot see everything before making and finalizing annual lists.

arsaib4

01-26-2005, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
Armond White is nuts, but I do check out what he says when I get the opportunity.

LOL,...true; I should've added an exclamation point next to his name (or maybe mine since I'm a little nuts too). I also strongly disagree with him most of the time, but usually I still find an idea or two in his reviews to think about. I can't say the same about too many other critics.

"Son frère, Patrice Chereau: I admire this director, famous in Europe, I understand, as a designer of opera productions. L'Homme blessé was one of the most powerful films of the Eighties, with a stunning first performance by the risk-taking actor Jean-Hugues Anglade; La reine Margot is gorgeous, also with Anglade. Intimacy was talked about, but not widely shown; I have not seen it. What is the distribution of the 2003 French release Son frère?

I believe Chéreau is an immensely talented director who's still very underrated. I had a thread about his latest film in the DVD section of the site:

http://www.filmwurld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1057

"One simply cannot see everything before making and finalizing annual lists. I can add Son frère to my "Wish I'd Seen" list."

Maybe if you weren't watching Harold and Kumar that night, you would've seen something else...just kidding.

oscar jubis

01-27-2005, 01:44 AM

In response to Chris Knipp's post about Huckabees:
Ebert had the same reaction upon first viewing at Cannes and decided he didn't like it when he watched it in the States. I'll try to say something more concrete. As of right now, it goes into the category of memorable failure, a courageous stab at creating an original work that deals with a type of angst that some of us liberal Americans are grappling with, a feeling of malaise about where the country is headed, recently stoked by an inaguration speech that gave me nightmares.

Chris Knipp

01-27-2005, 02:03 AM

That's fair. But it's a bit scattered, and Three Kings was very sharply focused, wittily satirical, and at the same time a movie that a mixed crowd at a cineplex could enjoy, or think it was enjoying, which most of the time is the same thing, don't you think? Huckabees draws in a much more limited audience and has no visceral effect.

I'm sorry you have had nightmares about the new crusade to spread Freedom and Democracy under God through his chosen servant, GW Bush.

oscar jubis

01-27-2005, 02:29 AM

You certainly understand how I feel and I agree with your post. I'm going to try to remain open-minded about Huckabees though, as I plan to see it at home as soon as becomes available.

arsaib4

01-27-2005, 02:34 AM

I believe the DVD release date for Huckabees is February 22nd.

Chris Knipp

01-27-2005, 03:15 AM

To arsaib4--You'll never forgive me for Howard and Kumar, but I know you were joking. As I've noted commenting on your 2003 list, there are a certain number of the movies you've seen that I did not find available despite going to a lot of movies and spending time in New York diligently catching up on the late releases.

I liked that Armond White called Mike Nichols "evil" for making Closer. His opinions sometimes seem to me perverse and truly nuts, but it is good and valuable to have a critic who is totally provocative much of the time. A lot of even the best critics are predictable. I may feel a little disappointed that Rosenbaum praised Million Dollar Baby even though I liked it too.

I want to say for the record that for what it's worth (and I'm not sure yet), I saw at least 30% more movies in 2004 than in 2003.

arsaib4

01-27-2005, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
As I've noted commenting on your 2003 list, there are a certain number of the movies you've seen that I did not find available despite going to a lot of movies and spending time in New York diligently catching up on the late releases.

I'm sure we've had discussions before on distribution but if you look at the release dates of some of these "smaller" indie/foreign films that are on my list, you'll see that a lot of them were released in NY (or in LA at times) earlier on in the year and unless you read publications like The Village Voice on a regular basis, it's almost impossible to even know that these films ever came out. These films open on a couple of screens here and stay for months at a time w/out expanding much. So for a lot of people watching them on DVD is the only option (if the distributor decides to put one out).

Chris Knipp

01-27-2005, 10:40 PM

I know.

tabuno

01-28-2005, 12:27 AM

The reason site is one of the best film commentary sites is reflected in Chris Knipp's response to my post. His carefully, crafted style does not offend and is a polite, an honest reponse that I and I'm sure other people appreciate.

I wanted to offer an additional observation to Spartan:

When I saw Spartan, it brought back some classic memories of The Ipcress Files, even The Three Days of Condor, The Spy Who Came In From the Cold. In comparison to The Bourne Identity, Spartan retained a strong raw and dark, sinister feel, threatening movie recalling the cold war imagery of fear and paranoia. It is this mood, creating cinematography that capture my attention - making me feel that this spy movie as one of the best to come along in years. It was compelling from start to finish along with its edgy ending.

Dogville, on the other hand, is very appropriate in its timing and directly relevant to the period of uncertainty and paranoia in our present day society. It's innovative directed production as a stage play but actually shot in a film produced approach is remarkable for its use of camera angles and lighting...capturing what I feel is both a strong social commentary and a nicely, brilliant entertaining piece of film that I have not ever seen before. It certainly stood out high among most movies that I've had the opportunity to experience. Based on its emotional resonance, its "evolution of its characters" and the "shifting dynamics" throughout the movie, appeared to present a striking directorial and performance task that I do not usually see either on stage or screen. It was an immensely satisfying movie that I hope to purchase as one of my classics in my film collection.

As for Wicker Park as I did not have the opportunity to see the original version, I can't comment on your observation for which you may easily have a valid point.

oscar jubis

02-22-2005, 01:20 AM

This year I've decided to list undistributed films separately, rather than incorporate them in the favorites list with an asterisk. Some of these undistributed films I watched in 2004 may get an official release in 2005 (or so one hopes).

FAVORITE UNDISTRIBUTED FILMS

1. 2046 (Wong Kar-wai, China)
2. Monday Morning (Otar Iosseliani, France/Italy)
3. Take My Eyes (Iciar Bollain, Spain)
4. And Along Came a Spider (Maziar Bahari, Iran)
__At Five in the Afternoon (Samira Makhmalbaf, Iran)
6. Bu Jian (The Missing) (Kang-sheng Lee, Taiwan)
__Marmoulak the Lizard (Kamal Tabrizi, Iran)
__Samaria (Ki-duk Kim, South Korea)
__The Weakness of the Bolshevik (Manuel Cuenca, Spain)

FOREIGN LANGUAGE TOP 10

1. A Talking Picture
__Crimson Gold
__Hero
__ Moolade
5. Springtime in a Small Town
6. Bad Education
__Blind Shaft
__Blissfully Yours
__Goodbye Dragon Inn
__Raja
__The Sea Inside
__Time of the Wolf

The Next 10

S21:The Khmer Rouge Killing Machine
Notre Musique
Innocence: Ghost in the Shell 2
Distant
Son Frere aka His Brother
Twilight Samurai
After the Life
Zaitochi
Since Otar Left
Maria Full of Grace

Honorable Mention: Dolls, Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter and...Spring, The Dreamers, The Return,Osama, Cachorro,Untold Scandal, The Five Obstructions, Tibet:Cry of the Snow Lion, Oasis, Strayed, House of Flying Daggers, James' Journey to Jerusalem, The Clay Bird, Motorcycle Diaries

DISTRIBUTED FILMS I MISSED
The Blonds.

SinjinSB

02-22-2005, 01:34 AM

Here's my updated Top Ten of 2004 after seeing Hotel Rwanda and Motorcycle Diaries this weekend:

01) Million Dollar Baby
02) Sideways
03) Hotel Rwanda
04) Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
05) Maria Full of Grace
06) Spider-Man 2
07) The Aviator
08) Collateral
09) Motorcylce Diaries (Diarios de Motocicleta)
10) Finding Neverland

oscar jubis

02-22-2005, 01:46 AM

BEST DOCUMENTARIES

1. THE CORPORATION
2. BRIGHT LEAVES
END OF THE CENTURY: THE STORY OF THE RAMONES
_ FAHRENHEIT 9/11
5_ FESTIVAL EXPRESS
_ LOS ANGELES PLAYS ITSELF
_ S21:THE KHMER ROUGE KILLING MACHINE
_ TARNATION
_ TOUCHING THE VOID
10. BUKOWSKI: BORN INTO THIS

ENGLISH LANGUAGE TOP 10

1. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
2. Before Sunset
__ The Big Red One: The Reconstruction
4. Dogville
__ Million Dollar Baby
__ Vera Drake
7. Cowards Bend the Knee
__ I Heart Huckabees
__ Saddest Music of the World

The Next 10

The Aviator
Kinsey
Undertow
Young Adam
The Mother
Sideways
Ae Fond Kiss
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Coffee and Cigarettes

Honorable Mention:
The Incredibles, The Machinist, Saved!, Ray, We Don't Live Here Anymore, Hotel Rwanda.

Chris Knipp

02-22-2005, 01:56 AM

Oscar: You must need some rest. By the time you got to your Eternal Sunshine your mind wasn't spotless, it was sleepless. Do you really mean to give unreleased films top billing or is that just because it was on your mind as a new category?
Surely those weren't the only "distributed films" you "missed!" I think that's like my "Wish I'd seen" category rather than a "failed to see" list.

SinjinSB: Yours is more the kind of list that makes sense to me at this time of year, because it's talking about the movies everybody else is discussing, and saying where you place them. However, it also gets boring after a while to go over the same much-discussed titles again and again. On the other hand Oscar's lists are at the opposite extreme: the average viewer will find Oscar's to be a compilation of things to try to find, but will not be able to talk about many of them. Both approaches are valid, but they're continually at odds with each other here as everywhere that this rating game is played.

oscar jubis

02-22-2005, 02:10 AM

LOL...Notice that I corrected that title before you pointed it out (beat you by two minutes buddy) so my mind is not that hopeless, not even at three in the a.m. A bigger problem was that my eyes skipped my favorite animated film of 2004: Innocence (#11 Foreign language). Guess I'm giving UNDISTRIBUTED FILMS top billing because these objects deserve the attention they've yet to receive in our beautiful and misguided country. I think by now you know I watch a ton of film and I'm sure I've missed few if any distributed films that appear on any top 10 list anywhere 'cluding this venerable site.

Chris Knipp

02-22-2005, 02:24 AM

I liked "Sleepless Mind." Oh well. So you've seen everything. I could challenge that claim, but I'd no doubt be wasting my time and yours. But I will anyway, in shorthand: just tell me, is there nothing on my list which began this thread that you haven't seen? Not even Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle? I may have to put that in my Top Ten US just to challenge you.

SinjinSB

02-22-2005, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
SinjinSB: Yours is more the kind of list that makes sense to me at this time of year, because it's talking about the movies everybody else is discussing, and saying where you place them. However, it also gets boring after a while to go over the same much-discussed titles again and again. On the other hand Oscar's lists are at the opposite extreme: the average viewer will find Oscar's to be a compilation of things to try to find, but will not be able to talk about many of them. Both approaches are valid, but they're continually at odds with each other here as everywhere that this rating game is played.

For what it's worth, my list is just my personal Top Ten movies of 2004 (I've seen 86 so far). It's still changing as I continue to see more movies (for example I just saw Hotel Rwanda and Motorcycle Diaries this weekend)...if it's a boring list, that's just how it is. Though if lists are repetitive, that may be a sign that the movies are among the best of the year. One thing to note, Oscar has several different categories of Top Tens...which I like, but allows him to include many more movies while my list is limited to strictly my Top Ten of 2004. Just to prove my point, over half of the movies on my lists are on his various lists. Also he has included movies that I have under different years (Hero is on my 2002 list...Osama, Zatoichi and others would be under 2003 for me). Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Oscar in the least. I like his lists a lot!! Just pointing out that my more narrow list includes only 10 movies that were first released in 2004...while his lists include over 50 movies including movies that were released from 2002-2004. Folks are welcome to use whatever criteria they like for their lists and I will definitely agree that having multiple lists is more meaningful that just one list of ten movies. And I know that if Oscar were to create a Top Ten of 2004 using my personal guidelines, it would probably be far different than mine. He's seen a lot more non-US films than I have...a lot of times it takes me a year or two to see a lot of non-US films, sometimes a lot longer (or never) if they're less popular.

If you're looking for obscurity, you should check my 2005 list...I bet there's a few on there no one on this list has seen yet (but I hope to god they're not on my (or ANY) Top Ten list by the end of the year). Anyone else seen Dave Barry's Complete Guide to Guys? PTU File Deathrap? How 'bout Seagal's new movie, Into the Sun? Elaan? Trust me though...none of these are worth seeking out (where as I'm sure most of Oscar's probably are).

On my website I have started to slowly branch out to other Top Tens by category, but my main focus is just Top Ten by year/decade (mainly because they are easiest). My holiday lists are extremely popular (and I thought I was the only seasonal movie watcher)...I've also got a few vehicle Top Tens. One area that I want to delve into, but haven't yet is Top Ten by country. I'm sure Australia will be my first as I have already watched most of the Aussie films I can easily get ahold of and including most of the noteworthy films. Maybe I'll get to work on that soon.

Chris Knipp

02-22-2005, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by SinjinSB
For what it's worth, my list is just my personal Top Ten movies of 2004 (I've seen 86 so far). It's still changing as I continue to see more movies (for example I just saw Hotel Rwanda and Motorcycle Diaries this weekend)...if it's a boring list, that's just how it is.

I didn't mean to say that your list in itself was boring but rather that the process of comparing lists of the most praised (mostly American) movies can be. You're right that if the lists become repetitious hopefully it's because the movies on them are really the year's best. As I said there are valid reasons for making both your kind of list and Oscar's, mine being more like his but less exotic.

Top tens by country is a great idea if you have the information to do it; I don't. Maybe I could make up a list of five for the US, France and Italy, and that's about it.

I will consult your site.

SinjinSB

02-22-2005, 10:45 PM

I agree...I have always enjoyed Oscars lists very much...and eveyone's. I'm a big fan of lists...they're a fun!

Not sure if I was clear (it was really late last night). My idea for doing lists by country was overall lists for all years. The information is pretty available on IMDB...though it can get tricky when it's a multi-country production.

I have a lot of aspirations for different lists to make...just need to get around to it.

oscar jubis

02-22-2005, 10:59 PM

*You're being playfully sarcastic with the "you've seen everything". I left myself open, uh? No need to list Kumar on yout list to challenge me_ I didn't list on my NOT SEEN one of your Top 10 docs: The one on Bukowski. I'll watch it as soon as it screens here (maybe at the Cosford) or comes out on video because you liked it, not because I have much of an interest on him as a writer.

*Top 10s by country is an idea whose time has passed given the high % of films which are co-produced by two or more countries. Lists by country no longer fit the current reality. To complicate things further, there are American films made in Spanish (Maria Full of Grace), Spanish and Scandinavian films made in English (The Machinist, Dogville), most films from Argentina are co-productions with European countries, and many Middle-Eastern films are financed by France.

*In a way it's a lot more difficult to make a single Top 10 than to list 60 films: 30 in English, 30 in a Foreign Language, with both categories divided into a Top 10, Next 10, and Honorable Mention, as I've been doing for a few years. I feel for critics who are asked by publication to submit ten films and no more than ten in a given year. I'd have to leave out so many great films (especially if you watch several hundreds per year and avoid the Kumars of this world). My list would be (and this is painful to do):1)(tie)The Corporation and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 3) 2046 4) Before Sunset, Crimson Gold and Hero 7) Dogville and Springtime in a Small Town 9)... Can't do it...I have at least four tied for the last two spots, I'd have to rewatch a few in order to decide.

HorseradishTree

02-23-2005, 02:04 PM

What was the release date for Coffee and Cigarettes? I didn't know whether or not I could put that on my list.

Chris Knipp

02-23-2005, 03:33 PM

HorseradishTree: Coffee and Cigarettes (Jim Jarmusch) Empire Movies / Distributed by: United Artists. Theatrical Release Date: May 14, 2004. It came out on dvd I think September 21, 2004; in the first week of September 2004 it had a brief theatrical showing in Paris.

Oscar: I wrote a detailed and I thought entertaining reply to your last post that got lost. It's a pity because I can't quite regenerate my enthusiasm or humor of yesterday now. I argued for national film lists on the grounds that people still have national and cultural identifications. You can make a list of the best Scandanavian/Spanish films in English too if you like. I don't think international productions are a new thing; they became common in the Seventies. A sense of national identity expressed in movies isn't dying out. And I don't think Elia Suleiman would want to have his films to be considered international productions because he makes them in a territory controlled by Israel. It's important that his films be categorized as Palestinian in origin, even where his approach to politics is oblique and ironic. I agreed that it's easier to make a list of sixty than of only ten best films and I said I shared your laziness on that and am looking for even easier ways of making these annual lists. I also agree with you that I find it uncomfortable to rate films, especially to rate a small group relative to each other. I would prefer a "pass/fail" system, but that may not be very useful in such discussions.

As for my saying you know everything, I can't guess what made you think that was a joke.

SinJinSB: You sure do like making lists, as I can see from your list-rich webpage. I still think that annual ten-best (or simply ten most talked about and most seen) lists for single countries besides the US would be helpful, such as for Spain, Korea, Japan, Australia, Iran, France, England, China and Taiwan and Hongkong -- if somebody with the knowledge necessary makes them up. You could also make annual best lists by language only for languages other than English, e.g., best Arabic, best Spanish, etc., which just like best English lists would span various countries, and could be useful to Anglophone viewers.

oscar jubis

02-24-2005, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
Oscar:I wrote a detailed and I thought entertaining reply to your last post that got lost. It's a pity because I can't quite regenerate my enthusiasm or humor of yesterday now.

It's happened to me before. I hate when it happens. I'm sorry I missed it. You were in fantastic form. The ketchup bit had me rolling.

I don't think international productions are a new thing; they became common in the Seventies.

They're even more common now. And they often involve production companies from more than two countries.

I don't think Elia Suleiman would want to have his films to be considered international productions because he makes them in a territory controlled by Israel. It's important that his films be categorized as Palestinian in origin

Absolutely. Still, I don't want to decide whether to put Since Otar Left in the French list, or the Georgian list, or the Belgian list.

As for my saying you know everything, I can't guess what made you think that was a joke.

Actually you wrote "you've SEEN everything" but either way I thought it was a joke because it's an impossibility, it's absurd, no?

Chris Knipp

02-24-2005, 01:59 AM

It's all relative. Compared to me, in cinema, you've seen everything and you know everything. I respect people who know more than I do. And see more than I do. And do more than I do.

P.s. Where's the ketchup?

oscar jubis

02-24-2005, 01:40 PM

I've benefitted from your wealth of knowledge, admired your writing skills, and learned from your insights. BTW, I waited until mid-Feb to post lists so that they are relatively definite, but lists are a work-in-progress. If I watch a 2004 release I missed and it makes the list at any of the three levels, I will edit my list and comment about it either here, at the journal, or in the film's own thread if there's one. I also plan to make changes if a second or third viewing radically alters my take on any film. Huckabees is a prime candidate to either move up or disappear from my list (last film listed) for reasons I've explained elsewhere. But in general, at my age, first impressions usually survive subsequent viewings. Ran out of the 169 :)

Chris Knipp

02-24-2005, 05:55 PM

Thank you. I said "in cinema" -- not in everything -- but there are other qualities of yours I learn from besides your film lore, such as your openmindedness, diplomatic manner, and sense of moderation.

Hopefully we're all works-in-progress -- not just our lists.

I don't want to keep updating my annual list, though, because it stands as a kind of time capsule of my year's moviegoing experiences. To keep altering it like tennis seedings or something would be "cheating," in my terms. However, constantly revising and commenting on it is probably more helpful to others.

oscar jubis

02-24-2005, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Chris Knipp
I don't want to keep updating my annual list, though, because it stands as a kind of time capsule of my year's moviegoing experiences

I see. Cool. For me, my list is my opportunity to single out the films that we're officially released in the USA in 2004 that gave me the most pleasure and edification. Most US residents don't get to watch several of these films of a given year until the first few months of the next year. Some of the 2004 films that had a "limited release" make their way around the country very slowly.
What is representative of my year's moviegoing experiences is that Undistributed Films list I compiled for the first time in 2004, which only contains films I watched during the calendar year 2004 that did not get distribution.

arsaib4

03-29-2005, 02:59 AM

*As always, only officially distributed films are included - of 2004 in this case.
*Re-releases are included only if they're NOT in their original form.
*Official direct-to-video films are included only if their world premiere was within the last 5 years.

TOP 15

1. Goodbye Dragon Inn (Bu san) - Tsai Ming-liang / Taiwan

2. Time of the Wolf (Le Temps du loup) - Michael Haneke / France

3. Dogville - Lars von Trier / Denmark

4. Birth - Jonathan Glazer / U.S.

5. Son Frère - Patrice Chéreau / France

6. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - Michel Gondry / U.S.

7. Last Life in the Universe (Ruang Rak noi nid Mahasan)
- Pen-Ek Ratanaruang / Thailand

8. Notre Musique - Jean-Luc Godard / France

9. The Twilight Samurai (Tasogare Seibei) - Yoji Yamada / Japan

10.The Village - M. Night Shyamalan / U.S.

11.Moolaadé - Ousmane Sembene / Senegal

12.The Brown Bunny - Vincent Gallo / U.S.

13.Crimson Gold (Talaye Sorgh) - Jafar Panahi / Iran

14.Kill Bill: Volume 2 - Quentin Tarantino / U.S.

15.Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring
(Bom yeoreum gaeul gyeoul geurigo bom) - Kim Ki-duk / S.Korea

RUNNERS-UP
(alphabetical order only)

Alexander - Oliver Stone / U.S.-Germany

Almost Peaceful (Un Monde presque paisible)
- Michel Deville / France

Bad Education (La Mala Educación) - Pedro Almodóvar / Spain

Before Sunset - Richard Linklater / U.S.

Free Radicals (Böse Zellen) - Barbara Albert / Austria

Hellboy - Guillermo del Toro / U.S.

The Inheritence (Arven) - Peter Fly / Denmark

Million Dollar Baby - Clint Eastwood / U.S.

Outskirts (Okraina) - Pyotr Lutsik / Russia

Persons of Interest - Alison Maclean & Tobias Perse - U.S.

Raja - Jacques Doillon / France-Morocco

Springtime in a Small Town (Xiao cheng zhi chun)
- Tian Zhuangzhuang / China

Strayed (Les Égarés) - André Téchiné / France

Tokyo Godfathers - Satoshi Kon / Japan

The Woodsman - Nicole Kassell / U.S.

Honorable Mention
(alphabetical order only)

Alila - Amos Gitai / Israel

Baadasssss! - Mario Van Peebles / U.S.

The Big Red One: The Reconstruction - Samuel Fuller / U.S.

Blind Shaft (Mang Jing) - Li Yang / China

Bon Voyage - Jean-Paul Rappeneau / France

Bright Future (Akarui Mirai) - Kiyoshi Kurosawa / Japan

Dawn of the Dead - Zack Snyder / U.S.

The Five Obstructions - Lars von Trier & Jørgen Leth / Denmark

Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry - George Butler / U.S.

I Heart Huckabees - David O. Russell / U.S.

The Incredibles - Brad Bird / U.S.

Loving Glances (Sjaj u Ocima) - Srdjan Karanovic
/ Serbia & Montenegro

Maria Full of Grace - Joshua Marston / U.S.-Columbia

Reconstruction - Christoffer Boe / Denmark

The Return (Vozvrashcheniye) - Andrei Zvyagintsev / Russia

Sex Is Comedy - Catherine Breillat / France

Shaun of the Dead - Edgar Wright / U.K.

Silent Waters (Khamosh Pani) - Sabiha Sumar / Pakistan

A Talking Picture (Um Filme Falado) - Manoel de Oliveira / Portugal

Viva Laldjérie - Nadir Moknèche / Algeria

*List of Best Undistributed Films (2004) is available here (http://www.filmwurld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1252).

tabuno

03-29-2005, 11:30 PM

I can't really speak to non-US films being primarily stuck off the major theatrical freeway. But your listing of top US films deserves some commentary:

For the most part, I'm delighted to see your selection of many quality 2004 US films namely:

Dogville - My personal favorite for its unique stage production style and evolutionary, incremental turn of human events.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - A creative, fresh look at memory along with a great dash of surrealism emotionalism.

Kill Bill Vol. 2 - A much higher cerebral, artsy version of Vol. 1 with more characterization and artistry.

Alexander - Was raw, sustained character-driven...a strong dramatization portrayal.

Hellboy - While not in my top films, Hellboy distinguished itself from the other by being more human than most, along with a more common man flavor.

I Heart Huckabees - A fun intellectual romp, though still a little uneven.

The Incredibles - One of my favorite films of 2004. A great animated family movie about "ordinary" superheros.

However, some of your selections are more intriguingly curious, such as:

Birth - I found this movie over-artsy and overly slow. The ending was somehow unsatisfying.

The Village - I found subpar and not very surprising...somewhat predictable...almost a television Outer Limits or Twilight Zone production extended.

arsaib4

03-30-2005, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by tabuno
I can't really speak to non-US films being primarily stuck off the major theatrical freeway. But your listing of top US films deserves some commentary:

I guess that explains your absence from discussions pertaining to foreign films. We could certainly use more people like yourself as you usually convey your thoughts so eloquently. I appreciate your remarks and it looks like we certainly have good taste ;)

"Dogville - My personal favorite for its unique stage production style and evolutionary, incremental turn of human events."

Technically a Danish production through and through, but it proudly wears an American heart on its sleeve. It could also be seen as a symbolic gesture for many events that took place throughout the 20th century.

"Kill Bill Vol. 2 - A much higher cerebral, artsy version of Vol. 1 with more characterization and artistry."

Correct. That's exactly why it's a better film than Vol. 1. Just watch the control the young master has on every nuance and gesture exchanged in the long opening sequence between Bill and The Bride and then you'll have some idea. The film only builds from there and while it contains many similar sequences it unfolds much more gracefully than Vol. 1 which plodded along the way.

Hellboy - While not in my top films, Hellboy distinguished itself from the other by being more human than most, along with a more common man flavor.

Directed by a true Fanboy named Guillermo Del Toro, it simply blew away the competition in pure energy and heart. Does anyone else has the guts to make a big-budget comic-book pic. at a major studio starring Ron Perlman and Selma Blair? I don't think so, but that's not it. Every filmed sequence crackled with a kind of enthusiasm usually confined to the source itself and it was infectious. Del Toro brought a similar touch to Blade 2 but arguably his best film is still The Devil's Backbone. It's great to see that he'll be directing Hellboy 2 also. Spiderman can go to Hell.

"Birth - I found this movie over-artsy and overly slow. The ending was somehow unsatisfying."

The more I thought about this film the more it grew on me and after subsequent viewings it ended up being the top American film on my list. I've rarely seen such sustained emotional sensitivity from the first frame to the very last, in relation to both time and space; it threatened to become metaphysical but eventually chose to remain grounded and rightfully so. That's the only way this film was going to work so I'm not surprised that a few people have called it "over-artsy," it's almost a complement. I think it's coming on DVD pretty soon so I'll try to put together something in detail.

"The Village - I found subpar and not very surprising...somewhat predictable...almost a television Outer Limits or Twilight Zone production extended."

An extremely misunderstood film in my opinion. Everybody from Roger Ebert on simply devoted their perceptions and opinions to what happened at the end, and if the surprise was "shocking" or "realistic" enough or not. No one bothered to see the analogy it constituted of the times we are living in, our hesitancies in regards to the outside world and how "they" perceive us. On top of that it's an allegorical tale relating to the confounding ideas and principles our nation was built on, and how insecurities and jealousies have tarnished its image. The film also contained the best debut performance of last year from Bryce Dallas Howard (much better and deeper than the one from the Oscar nominated Catelina Moreno). Disney's marketing campaign for the film focused on something else altogether, didn't it? Chalk this one up with Unbreakable as the film which will be talked about years from now.

*I don't think that you've posted a list yet. I'd love to see it.

tabuno

03-30-2005, 11:56 PM

1. Dogville (2004). Nicole Kidman offers up a superb performance in a script that is super rich in acting, a blend of a movie directed stage production that penetrates into the inner core of the human soul. One of the most powerful portrayals of social and interpersonal interactions on film.

2. Touching the Void (2004). A brilliant recreation of a mountain climbing event that went wrong. Some of the most breathtaking and calamitous shots filmed in documentary-like realism, with fantastic continuity and superb sound and music.

3. Kill Bill Vol. 2 (2004). Kill Bill No. 2. This is among the best movies of the year from a script, cinematography, character standpoint. A substantive and deeper as well as more edgy, emotional version than the over the top Volume No. 1 which tended towards satire of a number of genre.

4. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004). Jim Carrey offers up his best dramatic and strangely twisting relational movies so far. A heartfelt, energizing look into the innerworkings of memory and love and hate.

5. The Aviator (2004). Leonardo de Caprio and Cate Blanchett become Howard Hughes and Kathryn Hepburn in this dramatic and literally explosive biopic. Cate offers one of the most dazzling female performances and acting roles becoming Mrs. Hepburn while Leonardo takes on a much needed role expanding wisely his talented abilities in this intense, raw, and revealing psychological portrayal of this reclusive man.

6. Wicker Park (2004). An amazing post-Hickcockian mystery thriller that uses fresh, real-straight forward psychology and an amazing flashback technique from two different characters' perspectives. This love triangle of love obsession was one of the best movies of 2004.

7. The Incredibles (2004). The most delicious, socially relevant and dazzling uses of contemporary state of the art animated movies of the best. The brings home the art of the possible and captures the supreme essence of animation at its best.

8. Alexander (2004). A rich, lavish, and epic depiction of the historic Alexander with substance and depth.

9. Spartan (2004). This is one of the best espionage movies in many years, recalling past Cold War movies with their edgy (less action oriented) more implied emotional roller coaster that depends more of acting, performance, and script handling than special effects and over the top thrills.

10. Collateral (2004). A great performance by Tom Cruise focusing on the rarely portrayed badguy with substance. I loved the experience, dialogue, and the flavor of the movie.

11. Spiderman 2 (2004). Easily one of the best of the year because it captures both the superhero pyrotechnics along with a solid storyline and character development. A great Jaws - the Movie -renovation that combines many of the psychological elements of good film making.

12. Passion of the Christ (2004). A stirring 24 hour intense and focussed look at one of the most famous characters of all of theater. The emotional tragedy and intensity, the sincerity of character and original language and apparent veracity-looking, sounding film is a brilliant example of movie-making.

13. The Bourne Supremacy (2004). The new James Bond of the new century. This less special effects and fly by the seat of your pants spy thriller uses a more personal and emotional approach to the typical espionage movie. Nearly perfect in its execution - it presents the chase in its more human aspect though not as stark and raw as Spartan.

14. Little Black Book (2004). A special tribute to romantic comedies with a great, wrenching ending. A great script that the producers or director wisely decided to go with a solid, meaningful production rather than the usual, dopey string of stupid women.

15. Against the Ropes (2004). Meg Ryan performs one of her best roles in a difficult genre of male boxing. She achieves a underrated Demi Moore performance (as in Strip Tease) that was overlooked because of the nature of the male sport. A good look a the sport and the humanity that Ryan brought to a true story, real life character.

16. Sip si 32 doe - Hypothermia (1996). A Japanese version of Collateral (2004) that offers up a probing look that the relational turmoil of a female assassin. Very intelligent and haunting.

17. Closer (2004). Julia Roberts, Natalie Portman, Jude Law, and Clive Owen star in this retangular relationship swamp movies full of lust, love, betrayal, and devotion, salvation, and reassessment. An anti-mass audience movie that offers a more sensitive and revealing look at relationships.

18. Connie and Carla (2004). One of the more difficult performances of women acting as men acting as women. This movie captured the humorous and sensitive nature of the sexes along with a delightful David Duchovy straight man.

19. Day After Tomorrow (2004). The biggest, explosive disaster movie of all time that almost contained a strong human story. A well balanced movie of an epic magnitude without getting lost in the special effects.

20. The Terminal (2004). A different and well acted Tom Hanks in a microcosm of a world in an air terminal. An almost independent movie feel along with a more bittersweet ending that allows the audience to focus on humanity instead of fantasy.

tabuno

03-31-2005, 12:15 AM

[Spoiler]

The premise of The Village I believe is commendable and I believe a film that needed to be made. But like Unbreakable which I found in a similar fashion were both films that didn't really satisfy. I did find myself smiling, nodding my head as I begin to realize where The Village and its plot were moving towards. I enjoyed for once a movie that really didn't have to depend on something outlandlish in terms unnatural but stuck strickly with the psychological-thriller...this movie became more about humanity than some strange, overworldly experience. I do feel, however, that in the hands of a director like Alfred Hitchcock that an even better, more meserizing film might have been made using the same concepts.

As with "Birth" I've only see the movie once so it is impossible to reflect on any deeper experience that might be available with a second viewing so that it's possible that there may be more to this movie. Considering Nicole Kidman is in it and considering the preconceptions that people had going into the movie, it's likely that a whole new perspective and experience can be found on subsequent viewings.

Hellboy and Spiderman are two very different adaptations from the superhero, comic book genre. It's likely that Hellboy was more successful in directly transferring the comic book to the screen whereas Spiderman was more transformed into a popular theatrical vehicle without really trying to retain the comic book feel. Actually it's Sin City that's going to rock the whole comic book/movie genre foundation to the core. I enjoyed Hellboy for its keeping to its original source. But I can't fault Spiderman for being torn away from its roots and made into something else that was good for its own approach to superhero characterization. As I hinted at earlier, Spiderman 2 was successful in popularization superhero using mass marketing principles like Jaws. It is understandable though for purists that Spiderman 2 really was a diluted, poor rendition of its original comic source. Part of the problem in my watching Hellboy was that I had already come into the movie with a negative attitude towards the movie. By the end, however, a lot of the negative (actually all of the negativity) had been eliminated and I came out of the theater glad that I had an opportunity to have seen this movie. Whether another sitting of Hellboy would increase my appreciation of the movie, I can't say.

arsaib4

03-31-2005, 12:40 AM

Even though there are only five common films in our lists (Dogville, Kill Bill Vol.2, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Incredibles and Alexander) I certainly respect many of the other films you've mentioned.

Originally posted by tabuno
Touching the Void (2004). A brilliant recreation of a mountain climbing event that went wrong. Some of the most breathtaking and calamitous shots filmed in documentary-like realism, with fantastic continuity and superb sound and music.

Correct, it's visually mind-blowing; I just had a few hang-ups about the "recreation" part of it.

Wicker Park (2004). An amazing post-Hickcockian mystery thriller that uses fresh, real-straight forward psychology and an amazing flashback technique from two different characters' perspectives. This love triangle of love obsession was one of the best movies of 2004.

A friend told me that it's a remake of L'Appartement, a French film starring the real-life couple Vincent Cassel and Monica Bellucci. It self-destructed near the end but was still interesting. Perhaps the remake is worth a rental.

Collateral (2004). A great performance by Tom Cruise focusing on the rarely portrayed badguy with substance. I loved the experience, dialogue, and the flavor of the movie.

Loved the way Mann used DV but I had major issues with the script which kept circling and never found a way to establish itself.

Passion of the Christ (2004). A stirring 24 hour intense and focussed look at one of the most famous characters of all of theater. The emotional tragedy and intensity, the sincerity of character and original language and apparent veracity-looking, sounding film is a brilliant example of movie-making.

You're right, "brilliant example of movie-making," but I wouldn't say that it was "focused" or "sincere."

Sip si 32 doe - Hypothermia (1996). A Japanese version of Collateral (2004) that offers up a probing look that the relational turmoil of a female assassin. Very intelligent and haunting.

Hmmm...interesting, I've never heard of it which is surprising. Was it released theatrically?

Closer (2004). Julia Roberts, Natalie Portman, Jude Law, and Clive Owen star in this retangular relationship swamp movies full of lust, love, betrayal, and devotion, salvation, and reassessment. An anti-mass audience movie that offers a more sensitive and revealing look at relationships.

I agree; I liked it more than many other films released late last year, including The Aviator, Sideways, Finding Neverland etc. The problem obviously is that a "relationship" offers more than just a starting and an ending point.

*I obviously wish that you weren't limited with your choices but unfortunately that's the way distribution is right now when it comes to foreign/independent cinema.

Chris Knipp

04-01-2005, 08:54 AM

Tabuno--- your list is too long to comment on in detai now. Five are great choices, five are very justifiable choices, and the rest ofthem are mediocre or stuff I never even heard of. I disagree on Closer, Passion of the Christ, but of course you have lots of people with you in liking them. As for Spartan and Wicker Park, those are mediocre at best; Day after Tomorrow Alexander are just big pop albatrosses with glossy production values. Bourne Supremacy, yes, I do like the series, though I don't see much art in this one despite the jumpy camera work. The New Yorker agrees with you in finding this one much better than Identity; I don't agree. An action adventure franchise doesn't have to be tarted up with tricky editing and camera work. I can see the logic of picking Dogville as your number one, even though I disliked it. Your evaluations seem to me highly uneven, but well worth looking at. I can't figure you out, and that may be a plus.

tabuno

04-01-2005, 11:58 PM

Touching the Void. It's nice to see in writing about the "recreation" aspect of this movie. In the background, there was always a little voice saying "jeeze this documentary-like movie is so compelling, so real, so how could the photographer actually be taking this if this really happened?" Yet, unfortunately, I can't imagine how one could have really done this movie any other way. The line between documentary, semi-documentary, and docudrama is really blurred with this movie. In the end, I feel that the movie must be about the experience. In "What the Bleep Do We Know" the assertion is made that our brains really cannot actually distinguish between what we actually see with our eyes and what we seen in our brain.

Collateral. I suspect that Lost in Translation could also be found to be wanting in the circling department, being more of a travelogue format of Japan with a lot of personal immersion stuff thrown in. The movie appeared to flow in a singular path and little circles that led to a spiral by the end.

Passion of the Christ. Semantics maybe? Sincere...I'm assuming that Mel Gibson was sincere and focussed on this project, as one could gleem from the use of Aramaic, the insistence on violent, graphic scenes. Sincere as in truthful as Mel Gibson saw truth - an intense attempt at his version of realism (as if you were actually there in person experience).

Sip si 32 doe - Hypothermia (1996). Straight to DVD.

Spartan. More explanation about mediocrity. My experience with this movie was gripping, stinging compelling as when I saw the Ipcress File classic with Michael Caine. The strong dark lines, edges, the deadly seriousness of the script, even the ending was a nice touch compared to The Bourne Identity. For me, Spartan was the spy movie at its best. What am I missing? I was left "cold" by this movie - but it was that type of cold the means that this movie really shock me to the core of emotional biting at my consciousness - anger, disappointment, relieve, and acceptance not about the movie but about what the movie was about.

Alexander and Day After Tomorrow - top production values...without them what kind of movie does one have? Can movies be evaluated by the genre not their comparison to all movies? Some people like Westerns others hate them - how can one then really find a consistent standard? Day After Tomorrow brought together both special effects - incredible along with a strong personal character element often attempted in such disaster movies like Airplane but come off more cliched and attempted to capture too many, too brief subplots. Even with Alexander when I compare it to Troy, the elements of homosexuality and the actual character of Alexander reminded me of the depth of performance that Brad Pitt had in Meet Joe Black (1998) when he performed as death - one of the coldest, brilliant (unvalued, overlooked) performances I've experienced.

My wife, my dad, and most of my co-workers can't figure me out either if that's any consolation. I was probably corrupted by taking an asthetics class as part of my philosophy major in the philosophy department at the Unversity of Utah back in the 70s where I attempted to discover an objective standard to what good art was. Apparently, I haven't been too consistent since then. Maybe it has something to do with quantum mechanics that I keep referring to in "What the Bleep Do We Know" DVD.

Chris Knipp

04-02-2005, 10:55 AM

This is interesting. It's been said more than once, I think by arsaib4 here on one occasion, that what's interesting is not the list but how you justify it. I wish we could go into even more detail, but I'm a bit pressed for time right now myself.
As for Alexander and Day After Tomorrow, I don't believe in dismissing anything because of its genre, although we have to acknowledge thatthere is a hieracrchy of genres, where horror movies would be near the bottom. Within any genres there is good and bad. Elaborate productions tend to get bogged down by the sheer expense, the sheer overwhelming NOISE of the effects, the plethora of characters, etc. but in the case of Day After Tomorrow it is pretty clear to me that the filmmakers had only a pretense of ecological considerations and were basically trying to make a big-money-making blockbuster; I don't mind the latter, but I do mind the pretense of being some kind of progressive while spending and hoping to make tons of money.

I still think Spartan is sloppy and incoherent; I don't see how you can compare it with an inspired piece of entertainment like Ipcress File -- something they did better in the Seventies, in the pre-blockbuster period.

Passionof the Christ is perhaps sincere; forgive the extreme example but Hitler was sincere in hating Jews. Sincereity is not a virtue in itself except that we think insincerity is a fault. Yes, it is, but sincerity is not a sufficient virtue.

Liked your comments, sorry I can't go into more detail in response to them now.

I also liked that you liked Eternal Sunshine, Aviator, ZKill Bill, the Incredibles, and Touchingthe Void. And I especially liked that you liked Collateral, which some of our most discering and serious members, e.g., Oscar, can barely forgive me for choosing as one of my Ten Best US movies for 2004! I need allies on that, though I'm not alone--read Manohla Dargis's review of it.

tabuno

04-03-2005, 02:54 PM

As with Lara Croft sequel that I saw again last night, it's sometimes good to get another look at a movie. Spartan was a first impression movie. Ipcress File is a long ago memory. I'm going to have to put Spartan on my hopefully can see again list along with the Ipcress File because your insistence on your impressions is enough to give me pause.

Chris Knipp

04-04-2005, 10:29 AM

I am flattered that you would re-watch Spartan on my account, and if you regarded it very highly you perhaps should, but if I were you I'd save my time for more interesting stuff.

oscar jubis

03-27-2008, 09:37 AM

Moolade, the last film by the great Senegalese writer/director Ousmane Sembene was released commercially in late 2004. The film has finally been released on dvd by New Yorker Video (release date 2/19/08). I think it's a masterpiece. A visually ravishing, funny, tragic account of how a rural village dealt with social conflict. The issue is forced female circumscision, a process of "purification" that dates back to the 19th century and the village conversion to Islam. Sembene (1923-2007) is often called "the father of African cinema". He fought against the Nazis in World War II and later became an author. His main interest was always expressing his political consciousness and fighting against oppression. Somewhere in the late 50s/early 60s he realized he could reach more people through cinema than through literature. His application for film school in Paris was denied so he moved to Moscow in 1961 and studied filmmaking there. His films won numerous awards at prestigious film festivals all over the world. Moolade won the top prize of the Un Certain Regard section at Cannes 2004. Other titles available for rent: His feature debut Black Girl (which includes the short Borom Sarret), Xala, and Mandabi. I have edited my List of Favorite Films of 2004 (http://www.filmwurld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9013#post9013) in order to include this magnificent 2004 release. It's my favorite African film since 1987's Yeelen (also available on dvd and one of the most gorgeous films ever made).

Chris Knipp

03-27-2008, 12:02 PM

You said three years ago that you regretted not having seen Moolade, which I saw in a Berkeley theater; and I said I thought you would like it. I've referred to it in my review (http://www.cinescene.com/knipp/bamako.html) of Bamako, to which it definitely relates, but I didn't review it.

oscar jubis

03-28-2008, 01:12 AM

Sissako was also trained in Moscow but now lives in France. I've seen his Life on Earth and look forward to Bamako, which comes out on dvd in a few weeks.

oscar jubis

04-17-2008, 03:41 PM

Now I've seen Bamako and you were right to think I'd like it. Indeed, it's evidences artistic growth when compared with the other Sissako film I've seen: Life on Earth. I will eventually buy the UK dvd of Waiting for Happiness if it doesn't come out in the USA. Anyway, I re-read your review of Bamako. I wouldn't have enough new to say to justify writing a review of my own. The exception would be comments about the film-within, the western called "Death in Timbuktu". Why is it there? Based on my observations and Sissako's statements: 1) Sissako's first exposure to cinema were spaghetti westerns and this is an homage to the genre. 2) He felt the viewers needed a respite or break from the trial of globalization that forms the core of Bamako. 3) He wanted to make a statement about how Africans bear a degree of responsibility for their problems. The violent civil wars that have devastated a number of African countries are the result of internal issues that Africans have been unable to resolve peacefully. The shootout in the film is a type of allegory of these civil wars. It's significant that a teacher gets executed and a mother walking by with her child gets shot accidentally.

As much as I like the film, I'd stop short of calling it a masterpiece (Rosenbaum did, and he's not the only one). I think he's still growing as an artist. Certain elements of the threadbare plot don't quite come together. A subplot involving a cop who gets his gun stolen while sleeping during work hours goes nowhere. The deterioration of the singer's marital relationship is presented with admirable subtlety but it doesn't have the emotional impact it could have had. An unexplained 11th hour murder lacks purpose (or perhaps I just didn't get it). These are minor complaints. I wholeheartedly agree with all the positive comments in your review. To be more specific, I'm debating whether to list the film towards the bottom of my 2007 Top 10 (foreign-language list) or as first runner-up.

I think it's great that Sissako is a young man who can take the place of the recently departed Sembene as representing the best of African cinema. His countryman Souleymane Cisse (born 1940) hasn't made a film since the poorly received Waati ('95). I mention him because Cisse made perhaps my favorite African film: Yeelen (1987).

It's sad to hear Sissako report that there are only two cinemas left in Mali. He explains that even though he knows Africans would like Bamako, he's quite aware most of his audience is European.